BHL: Le Hamassisme des imbéciles
 
La vérité c’est que ces gens de la « génération Gaza » qui jugent du dernier chic d’arborer un keffieh made in Palestine trouvent, au fond, naturel que des Arabes tuent d’autres Arabes.
 
http://laregledujeu.org/2014/07/28 [...] imbeciles/

IDF Chief of Staff Benny Gantz says the IDF is dismantling tunnels, targeting rocket launchers, and has made impressive gains.
 
He reports there is unprecedented cooperation between the air, ground and naval forces, and says Israel will continue as necessary.
 
He adds the IDF is doing its best to avoid civilian casualties in Gaza, but emphasizes that Hamas operates from within the civilian population. He urges Gazans to distance themselves from areas where Hamas operates, “because we will get there.”
 
Hamas is responsible for the explosion at the Shifa Hospital in Gaza, he says.

“A short while ago Al-Shifa Hospital and Al-Shati Refugee Camp were struck by failed rocket attacks launched by Gaza terrorists,” the army said in a statement sent to reporters.

Commentateur1: Seriously?
 
mon ami: As much as I like my Israelian friends, this is how it looks at moment. You may want to re-phrase the title of the map from an Israelian angle, but indeed this is how the territory is divided, away from any ideological beliefs. Data visualization highlight the fact in itself, the consequential judgment (information) is left to the eyes of the readers.
 
mon ami: Everyone knows that Israel has an advanced army and the support of a super power, hence, impossible to stop. Why don't you use all these resources and expertise to switch to a smart war and achieve the main result seamlessly without blood? Nowadays it is possible.
 
l'Israelien: There is so much wrong in the image above and the text you wrote that I don't really know where to
start. I expected, that knowing someone Israeli, you would at least ask to see the other side of the
conflict before choosing a side and posting this on your facebook page. Where do you get your "facts" from?
If you go only to the most modern history, then since the 16th century the whole area belonged to the
Ottoman/Turkish empire. There were all kinds of people living in what is modern Israel then. In WW1,
the British and French, as part of the Lausanne agreement, got control of the whole area which is
nowadays Israel, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon.
In 1917 Great Britain issued the Balfour Declaration for "the establishment in Palestine of a national
home for the Jewish people". In 1922 Britain allocated nearly 80% of Palestine to Transjordan
(modern day Jordan). Thus, Jordan covers the majority of the land of "Palestine" under British
Mandate. Jordan also includes the majority of the Arabs who lived there. In other words, Jordan is the
Arab portion of Palestine.
The residents of Palestine are called "Palestinians". Since Palestine includes both modern day Israel
and Jordan both Arab and Jewish residents of this area were referred to as "Palestinians". The
modern term "Palestinian" as you know it was only invented in 1964.
There is no language known as Palestinian, or any Palestinian culture distinct from that of all the Arabs
in the area. There has never been a land known as Palestine governed by Palestinians. "Palestinians"
are Arabs indistinguishable from Arabs throughout the Middle East. The great majority of Arabs in
greater Palestine and Israel share the same culture, language and religion.
United Nations Resolution 181 (the map you see for 1947) recommended a partition of the territory
from the British Mandate for Palestine into two states - one for Palestinian Jews and one for
Palestinian Arabs.
The Jews accepted the plan, but the Arabs didn't and decided to attack. This resulted in the war which
is now known as the 1948 Israeli war of independence. All the Arab countries surrounding Israel (Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Jordan) attacked. They asked the local Arab population to leave the area and a lot of them did. Unfortunately for them, they lost the war, and the result is the map you see as 1967, which is actually from before the 6 day war of 1967.
In 1967, all the countries surrounding Israel again decided to take over the area. But once again they lost. Jordan lost the West Bank and Eastern Jersulem, Egypt lost the whole Sinai desert + Gaza, and Syria lost the Golan Heights. Once again - no "Palestine". There's no map above showing this but at this point it all looked white.
At this point Israel returned the Sinai desert to Egypt for a peace agreement. The map you see as "2010" was actually created as part of the 1995 Oslo 2 accords in which part of the land was given by Israel to the PLO (which was created in 1964) to have different levels of control of in exchange for peace. Obviously this didn't work out.
In 2005, Israel decided to leave Gaza to the Palestinian authority. The thought was that now that they got their land back they would stop the attacks. Instead, two years later Hamas was voted into power in the Gaza strip and since then has been lobbing rockets into Israel.
 
l'Israelien: You say that the data visualization highlight the facts themselves and that the rest of the information is left to the eyes of the readers. Well, sorry to tell you, but most of the information about what actually happened is not visualized in those images. The Jews were first offered 12% of modern Israel. They accepted, the arabs of the region not. Then the Jews were offered ~50% of modern Israel. They accepted, the arabs of the region not. Having full control of the West Bank and Gaza, this was once again not enough for the Arabs, and they lost those area after attacking Israel in 1967. Israel gave back the Gaza strip and parts of the West Bank, but what it got back is a Hamas leadership intent on destroying the whole of Israel (it's in their charter). Does that context change what you see in the images? Do you still think all the information is in the image? Do you see that the Arabs COULD have gotten all of the above maps but each time decided BY THEMSELVES not to accept it?
 
 
l'Israelien: As for the question about smart war and no blood.. really? There was relative quiet with Gaza until they tried and failed (killed) to kidnap 3 Israelis. We did NOTHING to provoke them. Unless you count simply existing as provocation. We arrested the people that had to do with the kidnapping, so they started shooting missiles into Israel.
 
Even if you look just at this most recent conflict: At the very start Egypt proposed a ceasefire, Israel accepted and stopped, Hamas kept shooting missiles. Then the UN asked for a humanitarian ceasefire, Israel accepted and stopped, Hamas kept shooting missiles.
 
Out main goal/result, is to stop the rockets shooting into Israel. That's it. We don't want Gaza, we didn't try to get Gaza. If Hamas is against ceasing fire, how exactly do you propose to do this without bloodshed? Last time I looked, Israel has done ~8000 airstrikes, tageting rocket launchers and tunnels that are used to get into Israel. There are ~500 dead Palestinians. This is very sad, truly, I wish none of them would have been killed. But do you know of ANY other army who managed to kill so little amount of people with 8000 air-to-ground missiles?!? We are either the most inept army in the world or we actually try to minimize as much as is humanly possible (when Hamas uses civilians as body shields), the amount of collateral damage. As you said, we have enough bombs to literally carpet Gaza. Instead, we send out valuable soldiers to attack rocket launchers and tunnels where the airforce can not pinpoint the strikes enough. That's one of the stupidest way for us to "capture" Gaza, but it's the most blood-less way to do it, at least when concerned with Palestinian people.
 
l'Israelien: I really hope you read what I wrote. Even more, I hope you don't even take my word for it, but actually delve into real history sources and do your reading before posting something like you did. This conflict is much too complicated to sum it up by the satyrical picture and maps you posted.
 
If you still think exactly like you did before, I am sad for me, and sad for you. Would really love to hear what you think about this, in private or here.
 
 
 
l'Israelien: Well, Velia, the correct analogy is actually that let's say the Swiss are currently controlling Naples, and decide to give a small part of it which contains a majority of French to the French. The Italians resist and fight the French twice, but loose even more ground.. Under this analogy btw the "French" don't have a country of their own, while the "Italians" have a country just next to Naples containing 97% Napolitans.
 
I would think that most people would protest/resist. Historically though, since 1922, Gaza aside, whenever the Arabs of Palestine resisted/fought they lost more land, and whenever they talked peacefully (as in the Oslo accords) they got more land. They were since offered ~98% of the pre-1967 land in peace talks but also didn't accept.
 
I understand their will to resist. Looking at other conflicts of land - the Basque will for independence, the Irish in Northern Ireland, the indians in America, this list can go on and on -> there has always been a resisting movement when land was turned over from one entity to another so to satisfy your curiosity, I would probably have resisted too..
 
Actually, I wonder if you notice that your argument is valid in both directions? Israel exists since 1948. So it's 66 instead of 80 years. A group in Gaza calls for death to all Israelis and taking back all land from them. Would you just peacefully leave or somehow protest?
 
I totally agree with their right to protest. I, and most Israelis, believe that the only real solution to the conflict is a 2 state proposal based on the pre-1967 map of a Palestinian and Israeli country side by side. This could happen with the Fatah in the West Bank, but looks as if it's impossible with Hamas, as their manifest states obviously that they will continue fighting until ALL of "historic Palestine" will be free of Jews/Israelis. Respecting their resistance, I still don't appreciate their tactics. Hamas is actively targeting civilians, it's their stated goal and they use their own captive civilian population to protect the weapons they use for doing so.
22 juillet, 03:57 · J’aime
l'Israelien: And [Mon ami], I totally understand your two Israeli and Palestinian friends. This is a pain-in-the-ass and very touchy subject to tackle, and even I prefer to usually stay out of it. But in the end communicating about it is much better than leaving the subject in the dark so..
22 juillet, 03:59 · J’aime · 1
 
 
l'Israelien: I'd be happy to hear any more sides that I'm not aware of. I did try to stick to the facts as they appear in the history books and not bring up any things which are based on subjective analysis, would be interested to know where I went wrong.
 
I'm a bit worried when you say "I will report the facts as we in the west know them", as this same history is available to anyone with wikipedia and access to basic history books about the Middle East.. These history books were written by people in the West, it's just that most people these days base their knowledge more on the media than on actual academic research...
 
As for your question, did you mean the Jewish people? According to the bible (with some small parts corroborated by mentions in other sources), the Jewish people existed only in Judea. Then they were expulsed twice, once by the Babylonians and once by the Romans. In 135 CE, Hadrian defeated the Jewish army and renamed Jerusalem to Aelia Capitolina and the Kingdom of Judea (the last actual country existing in this area until present day Israel) into the protectorate of "Syria Palaestina". This already is not sourced from the bible. Some Jews still managed to stay in the lands. So most of the Jews were exiled until this point. In the late 19th century (~1880) the first Jews of Europe, plagues by antisemitic pogroms, decided to flee into present day Israel. This happened in several waves. My grand-parents for example came from Yemen in the early 1930s. All in all, by 1947 there were ~600,000 Jews in Palestine and ~1,200,000 Arabs.
 
The reason for coming, was that they needed to escape pogroms in Russia, persecution in every Arab country, and most obviously the atrocities in Europe during WW2. So it was not out of a religious reason, but to escape killing.
 
You say "how come you want it now" - we wanted it then, not now. We wanted it then, we got it then, and now we want to keep it, unless we can give back land in a real peace accord like we did with Egypt in 1978 or started with the Palestinians in 1995. Gaza was given back without getting peace for it.
 
The question of "how come you want it now" should be pointed at the Palestinians. There was never a Palestinian country, there DID exist a Jewish country, in this approximate same area as modern Israel. They started to want a country only later in the history if you read my previous post. But you know what? What does it matter? They want a country now, I say they should get one. Through diplomatics and non-violent resistance. Their leaders at least, and anyone who joins the Hamas, want us all dead.
 
The reason for wanting out own country for Jews, is to not be dependent on some other country for protection as was during WW2 etc.. We want to protect our own. Iran (Islamic Republic of Iran) is a country for Islam, why can't there be an Israel - a country for Jewish people to find shelter in?
22 juillet, 10:34 · J’aime
 
 
 

An NBC News team in the area said the strikes were in "close succession" and the round that hit the refugee camp exploded in the middle of a crowded street where children had been playing.

UPDATE: IDF says air strike that hit near Gaza hospital not Israeli; NBC News journalist witnessing the bombing said it was Israeli drone.

Early reports from the ground had said an Israeli drone appeared responsible for the attack.

Un journaliste de l'AFP présent sur place a vu le mur de l'hôpital endommagé par un tir de drone.