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2024 United States presidential election
Ce sondage expirera le 05-11-2024 à 12:00




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[US Politics] Harris vs Trump - Election Mardi 5 Novembre 2024

n°70961195
the veggie​ boy
Hiromatsu-sama
Posté le 01-07-2024 à 20:35:57  profilanswer
 

Reprise du message précédent :
interessant
 
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/a [...] e-americas
 

Citation :

Trump Isn't Going to Like the Supreme Court's Immunity Decision
 
Anyone who expected the US Supreme Court to give clear guidance on the extent to which former President Donald Trump can be tried (and tried and tried) for the crimes of which he has been accused must surely be disappointed with the complexity of what the justices decided in Trump v. United States. The case was sent back to the lower courts for further proceedings.
 
But clarity shouldn’t have been expected, not least because there are, essentially, no precedents.
 
There’s much in Chief Justice John Roberts’s majority opinion to hearten the former president — part of the indictment brought by Special Counsel Jack Smith will be dismissed. But the prosecution, too, gets an important piece of what it wanted.
 
And although the decision is being reported as a big win for Trump, I’m not sure that’s so.
 
To begin with, the court rightly rejected Trump’s absurd position that a former president can’t be prosecuted for his conduct in office unless he has been impeached and removed. The court also rightly rejected the absurd position of the special counsel that the president enjoys no immunity at all.
 
It’s obvious to everyone that a president cannot do the job if subject to the whims of any prosecutor who might decide to indict him after his term ends for a crime he supposedly committed in office; it’s equally obvious to everyone (well, almost everyone) that the same president, job to do or not, can’t be permitted to pull out a gun and shoot somebody for annoying him.
 
Between those two consensuses lies a gulf too vast to be crossed in a single court decision. Although today’s ruling doesn’t resolve the criminal case, the justices get points for trying.
 
A quick precis:
 
The president is absolutely immune from criminal punishment for “actions within his ‘conclusive and preclusive’ constitutional authority.” The majority gives as examples exercising the pardon power and (apparently) commanding the armed forces. Congress can’t criminalize “conduct within his exclusive sphere of constitutional authority,” writes the court. “Neither may the courts adjudicate a criminal prosecution that examines such Presidential actions.”
 
But most of what a president does will not fall within so clear and sharp a definition. The chief executive also undertakes what the majority labels “acts within the outer perimeter of his official responsibility” — a category, alas, for which the majority provides no clear examples. The court does tell us, however, why the criminalization of such conduct remains a cause of constitutional concern:
 
A President inclined to take one course of action based on the public interest may instead opt for another, apprehensive that criminal penalties may befall him upon his departure from office. And if a former President’s official acts are routinely subjected to scrutiny in criminal prosecutions, ‘the independence of the Executive Branch’ may be significantly undermined.
 
For those acts, the president is entitled to a presumptive immunity — that is, he cannot be prosecuted under the Constitution “unless the Government can show that applying a criminal prohibition to that act would pose no “dangers of intrusion on the authority and functions of the Executive Branch.”
 
Finally, there is no immunity for “unofficial” acts, although, as the chief justice ruefully concedes, “Distinguishing the President’s official actions from his unofficial ones can be difficult.”
 
And here’s the part that Trump will probably be happiest to read: Sometimes, “speaking to and on behalf of the American people” will qualify as an official action; and “in dividing official from unofficial conduct, courts may not inquire into the President’s motives.”
 
How does the special counsel’s indictment fare under this test?
 
First, supervising the Justice Department is part of the official duties of the president, so he may not be prosecuted for those conversations. Second, Trump’s pressure on Vice President Mike Pence to find a way to derail the counting of the electoral votes might fall within the outer perimeter of official conduct, so that the prosecution must show that investigating the conduct will not intrude upon the function of the executive branch.
 
The remaining charges — the events of Jan. 6 and the jawboning of other public and private officials to overturn election results — the court sent back to the lower courts to decide whether they were outside the president’s official duties.
 
This is where the majority bestows a major gift on the prosecutors: “There may, however, be contexts in which the President, notwithstanding the prominence of his position, speaks in an unofficial capacity — perhaps as a candidate for office or party leader.
 
With that single line, Roberts neatly disposes of what might otherwise have been Trump’s strongest defense: that running for reelection is among the official duties of the president.

 
I doubt that the line was included without any thought to its implications. As Justice Sonia Sotomayor writes in a dissent joined by Justices Elena Kagan and Ketanji Brown Jackson, “[t]he indictment paints a stark portrait of a President desperate to stay in power.”
 
And although most presidential speeches will qualify for immunity, the prosecutor might plausibly argue that there is no threat to the workings of the presidency when the government investigates a fiery speech to an angry crowd two weeks before the loser in an election is set to leave office.
 
That’s why I’m not all sure that Trump is the big winner here. If staying in power isn’t an official duty — a point on which I take the entire court to agree — then the former president may yet be in trouble.


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blacklist
mood
Publicité
Posté le 01-07-2024 à 20:35:57  profilanswer
 

n°70961208
Teto
Ligne de fuite
Posté le 01-07-2024 à 20:37:11  profilanswer
 

Mais à part ça, les juges élus à la Cour Suprême sont des parangons de vertu, laissant leurs convictions politiques / religieuse / whatever pour s'occuper que de droit... :ironie:


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I am Moanaaaaaaa !!! (et en version legit!)
n°70961257
Maalak
Posté le 01-07-2024 à 20:42:00  profilanswer
 

Mais concrètement, en quoi cette immunité partielle dirons-nous est-elle différente de celle en vigueur chez nous ?

n°70961292
Bweezy
Posté le 01-07-2024 à 20:45:53  profilanswer
 

"Official", c'est ça qui est très vague. Ce qui sera jugé comme non-officiel par une court, en suivra un appel, qui remontera à la SCOTUS, qui attendra 6 mois avant de statuer, etc, etc, etc ...
Boîte de Pandore.

n°70961299
the veggie​ boy
Hiromatsu-sama
Posté le 01-07-2024 à 20:46:21  profilanswer
 

the veggie boy a écrit :

interessant
 
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/a [...] e-americas
 

Citation :

Trump Isn't Going to Like the Supreme Court's Immunity Decision
 
The remaining charges — the events of Jan. 6 and the jawboning of other public and private officials to overturn election results — the court sent back to the lower courts to decide whether they were outside the president’s official duties.
 
This is where the majority bestows a major gift on the prosecutors: “There may, however, be contexts in which the President, notwithstanding the prominence of his position, speaks in an unofficial capacity — perhaps as a candidate for office or party leader.
 
With that single line, Roberts neatly disposes of what might otherwise have been Trump’s strongest defense: that running for reelection is among the official duties of the president.

 
(...)
That’s why I’m not all sure that Trump is the big winner here. If staying in power isn’t an official duty — a point on which I take the entire court to agree — then the former president may yet be in trouble.



 
 
et interessant egalement, ACB avait deja +- prevu le coup, et indique la marche a suivre a Jack Smith :
 
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/a [...] jack-smith
 

Citation :

(...)
 
Brett Kavanaugh offered an alternative account that sounded a little less bad: “The president’s not above the law, the president’s not a king … the president is subject to prosecution for all personal acts, just like every other American for personal acts. The question is acts taken in an official capacity.”
 
If the conservative majority were to adopt a version of Kavanaugh’s view, two different things could happen. One is that Smith could decide to drop any part of the prosecution that depended on what could arguably be considered official acts, allowing the prosecution to proceed focused solely on Trump’s acts as a candidate, not as president.
 
Justice Amy Coney Barrett all but recommended this course of action to Smith. She walked through the relevant charges one by one, each time getting Trump’s lawyer to admit that the conduct she was asking about was private, not official. She pointed to Trump using a private attorney “to spread knowingly false claims of election fraud.” She quoted the indictment saying that Trump “conspired with another private attorney” on false allegations about the election. Finally, she referred to “three private actors, two attorneys … and a political consultant [who] helped implement a plan to submit fraudulent slates of presidential electors to obstruct the certification proceeding,” as directed by Trump.
 
Each time, Trump’s lawyer conceded the conduct was private. Barrett was effectively saying that the prosecution could go forward immediately (after the Supreme Court decides the case) provided that Smith follows her roadmap and drops elements of the criminal charges that are arguably official, like Trump deliberating with Department of Justice officials about who would be the next attorney general.
 
If Smith doesn’t take that course of action, the second possibility is that the federal district court would have to decide which parts of the charges against Trump involved private acts as opposed to official acts. Kavanaugh put this possibility directly to Trump’s lawyer. If things go this way, Trump would try to appeal the district court’s decision about what was private and what was official to the Court of Appeals and then to the Supreme Court, essentially guaranteeing that there would be no trial before the November election.
 
The upshot is that, if Kavanaugh prevails, Jack Smith may well have a strategic choice to make with major consequences for the timing of the trial. Drop some of the charges and proceed; or stick to his guns and risk having no trial at all.


 
en gros, y'a suffisamment de trucs dont Trump est accuse pour lesquels son avocat a admis que ca releve d'actions privees et pas officielles, et il n'y a pas d'immunite pour ces actions privees


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n°70961324
Bweezy
Posté le 01-07-2024 à 20:48:20  profilanswer
 

Mais tout ce qui serait "officiel" et mêlé à du "privé", devrait être écarté des charges. Donc tu vides le dossier de sa substance.
Comme l'appel à Zelensky.

Message cité 2 fois
Message édité par Bweezy le 01-07-2024 à 20:48:52
n°70961489
broddok27
Posté le 01-07-2024 à 21:03:54  profilanswer
 

Bweezy a écrit :

Mais tout ce qui serait "officiel" et mêlé à du "privé", devrait être écarté des charges. Donc tu vides le dossier de sa substance.
Comme l'appel à Zelensky.


 
Non mais faut arrêter avec cette séparation officiel/privée. Ne pas avoir cette distinction retire un privilège de despote et ne donne pas la possibilité de finir dictature. C'est mieyx en tout point que ce jugement de merde.

n°70961554
LeGrandMat​heux
Animateur
Posté le 01-07-2024 à 21:10:31  profilanswer
 

 


C'est un sondage choisit à chaud, au final peu de monde aura mater le débat et ceux qui l'ont fait restent très majoritairement sur leurs positions...l'avantage d'avoir un système bipartisan clivé à mort.

 

https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod/images/joe-glasses-1-1603555077.gif?resize=980:*[/img]

   


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not my monkey, not my Circus.
n°70961864
Blackhawk8
Posté le 01-07-2024 à 21:43:42  profilanswer
 

Ben le débat a changé ma perspective sur la capacité de Biden à diriger le pays, mais ce n'est pas pour autant que ça me ferait voter pour le mec orange.
C'est l'absentionisme qui risque de prendre les parts de Biden

 

On dirait qu'il y a une implosion au sein du cercle Biden, et si sa famille s'en mêle, c'est peut-être un indicateur que Joe n'est plus capable de faire les bons choix lui même.


Message édité par Blackhawk8 le 01-07-2024 à 21:45:21
n°70961908
Blackhawk8
Posté le 01-07-2024 à 21:48:16  profilanswer
 

Et puis la performance de Biden fait tous les gros titres, il n'y a plus besoin de regarder le débat pour comprendre la situation


Message édité par Blackhawk8 le 01-07-2024 à 21:48:57
mood
Publicité
Posté le 01-07-2024 à 21:48:16  profilanswer
 

n°70961985
the veggie​ boy
Hiromatsu-sama
Posté le 01-07-2024 à 21:57:24  profilanswer
 

Bweezy a écrit :

Mais tout ce qui serait "officiel" et mêlé à du "privé", devrait être écarté des charges. Donc tu vides le dossier de sa substance.
Comme l'appel à Zelensky.


 
l'avocat de Trump lui-meme a admis que pas mal de trucs relevaient du privé...
ca ecarte juste donc les autres charges, mais pas celles la


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n°70961994
iVador
Posté le 01-07-2024 à 21:58:49  profilanswer
 

Le Président Biden pourrait donc faire emprisonner Trump, sa famille, et ses complices , sans procès, sous forme d’acte officiel ?  
 
À sa place je ne me gênerais pas … c’est pour le bien de la démocratie.


Message édité par iVador le 01-07-2024 à 21:59:19
n°70962114
Dæmon
Posté le 01-07-2024 à 22:14:16  profilanswer
 

the veggie boy a écrit :


 
l'avocat de Trump lui-meme a admis que pas mal de trucs relevaient du privé...
ca ecarte juste donc les autres charges, mais pas celles la


Ca ne les empêchera pas de faire appel pour avoir l'opinion de la cours supreme sur le sujet... [:dæmon:1]


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|.:::.._On se retrouvera_..:::.|
n°70962192
Esiuol
Posté le 01-07-2024 à 22:21:38  profilanswer
 

https://x.com/gallup/status/1807793 [...] d-RH8CT3bg
 

Citation :

A majority of Americans do not think Biden (62%) nor Trump (53%) have presidential personalities and leadership qualities.
 
The last time Americans thought both major party candidates met this standard was in 2012 with Obama (57%) and Romney (54%).


 
 
https://i.ibb.co/xgCfbyr/IMG-6460.jpg

n°70962255
Blackhawk8
Posté le 01-07-2024 à 22:30:10  profilanswer
 

Même si je n'apprécie pas Newsom outre mesure, je pense que c'est le remplaçant qu'il faut pour Biden

n°70962321
Bweezy
Posté le 01-07-2024 à 22:36:42  profilanswer
 

broddok27 a écrit :


 
Non mais faut arrêter avec cette séparation officiel/privée. Ne pas avoir cette distinction retire un privilège de despote et ne donne pas la possibilité de finir dictature. C'est mieyx en tout point que ce jugement de merde.


 
Je comprends rien, surtout par rapport à mon quote.
Mais c'est pas nouveau ...

n°70962390
Bweezy
Posté le 01-07-2024 à 22:44:41  profilanswer
 

C'est fou de ne pas comprendre ce qu'est la Court Suprême : c'est elle qui fixe les arbitrations ultimes, les jurisprudences ultimes, tout le long de sa tenue (i.e tant que SES/CES juges sont en place).
Que le tribunal de Montcuq condamne Trump à 130 ans de prisons, ça ne change rien : le recours à la SCOTUS est ultime, avec tout les palâbres entre les deux qui l'exonèrent de toute peine pénale effectivement purgée.

 

CE MEC DEVRAIT ETRE EN TAULE DEPUIS DES ANNEES BORDEL DE MERDE !

 

/c'est dit :o


Message édité par Bweezy le 01-07-2024 à 22:45:11
n°70962466
iVador
Posté le 01-07-2024 à 22:51:25  profilanswer
 

Dame Nature s’occupera bien de Trump à un moment donné.

n°70962565
Blackhawk8
Posté le 01-07-2024 à 23:01:09  profilanswer
 

Trump est bullet proof, c’est clair maintenant

n°70962612
the veggie​ boy
Hiromatsu-sama
Posté le 01-07-2024 à 23:05:45  profilanswer
 

Dæmon a écrit :


Ca ne les empêchera pas de faire appel pour avoir l'opinion de la cours supreme sur le sujet... [:dæmon:1]


mais justement, ACB a deja donne son avis la dessus :D
enfin, peut-etre qu'il faut quand meme que ca repasse proceduralement devant la SCOTUS, cela dit


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n°70962631
the veggie​ boy
Hiromatsu-sama
Posté le 01-07-2024 à 23:07:29  profilanswer
 

Blackhawk8 a écrit :

Même si je n'apprécie pas Newsom outre mesure, je pense que c'est le remplaçant qu'il faut pour Biden


 
la femme de Biden a dit non, donc c'est non, vu que c'est elle qui decide et pas le DNC ou les electeurs, apparemment


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n°70962665
Bweezy
Posté le 01-07-2024 à 23:11:33  profilanswer
 

the veggie boy a écrit :


 
la femme de Biden a dit non, donc c'est non, vu que c'est elle qui decide et pas le DNC ou les electeurs, apparemment


 
'tain, t'es culotté quand même.
 
Il se porte bien Bloomberg ?

n°70963792
HumanRAGE
Rage d'être un Humain...LIBRE!
Posté le 02-07-2024 à 02:53:44  profilanswer
 

Citation :

Sotomayor’s dissent sums it up perfectly….
 
Justice Sonia Sotomayor did not hold back in her dissent.
 
“Let the President violate the law, let him exploit the trappings of his office for personal gain, let him use his official power for evil ends. Because if he knew that he may one day face liability for breaking the law, he might not be as bold and fearless as we would like him to be. That is the majority’s message today. Even if these nightmare scenarios never play out, and I pray they never do, the damage has been done. The relationship between the President and the people he serves has shifted irrevocably. In every use of official power, the President is now a king above the law.”
“Orders the Navy’s Seal Team 6 to assassinate a political rival? Immune. Organizes a military coup to hold onto power? Immune. Takes a bribe in exchange for a pardon? Immune. Immune, immune, immune.”
 
 
[...]
 
    Never in the history of our Republic has a President had reason to believe that he would be immune from criminal prosecution if he used the trappings of his office to violate the criminal law. Moving forward, however, all former Presidents will be cloaked in such immunity. If the occupant of that office misuses official power for personal gain, the criminal law that the rest of us must abide will not provide a backstop.
 
    With fear for our democracy, I dissent.


 
RIP USA [:tinostar]


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When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist. Helder Camara | Telling your employees they're "family" is the corporate equivalent of saying "I love you" to a sex worker.
n°70963794
Dæmon
Posté le 02-07-2024 à 02:57:56  profilanswer
 

https://x.com/kaitlancollins/status [...] cElsQ&s=19

 
Citation :

News -- Following the Supreme Court ruling on immunity, Trump's legal team is moving to overturn his New York conviction and suggesting his sentencing hearing next week should be put on hold, a source tells me. More details coming up at 9:00 p.m.

 

[:dawa]


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|.:::.._On se retrouvera_..:::.|
n°70963798
leyo23
Posté le 02-07-2024 à 03:23:22  profilanswer
 

HumanRAGE a écrit :

Citation :

Sotomayor’s dissent sums it up perfectly….
 
Justice Sonia Sotomayor did not hold back in her dissent.
 
“Let the President violate the law, let him exploit the trappings of his office for personal gain, let him use his official power for evil ends. Because if he knew that he may one day face liability for breaking the law, he might not be as bold and fearless as we would like him to be. That is the majority’s message today. Even if these nightmare scenarios never play out, and I pray they never do, the damage has been done. The relationship between the President and the people he serves has shifted irrevocably. In every use of official power, the President is now a king above the law.”
“Orders the Navy’s Seal Team 6 to assassinate a political rival? Immune. Organizes a military coup to hold onto power? Immune. Takes a bribe in exchange for a pardon? Immune. Immune, immune, immune.”
 
 
[...]
 
    Never in the history of our Republic has a President had reason to believe that he would be immune from criminal prosecution if he used the trappings of his office to violate the criminal law. Moving forward, however, all former Presidents will be cloaked in such immunity. If the occupant of that office misuses official power for personal gain, the criminal law that the rest of us must abide will not provide a backstop.
 
    With fear for our democracy, I dissent.


 
RIP USA [:tinostar]


 
 
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c035zqe7lgro
 

Citation :

"Orders the Navy's Seal Team 6 to assassinate a political rival?" she wrote. "Immune."
"Organizes a military coup to hold onto power? Immune. Takes a bribe in exchange for a pardon? Immune. Immune, immune, immune."
"Even if these nightmare scenarios never play out, and I pray they never do, the damage has been done," Justice Sotomayor wrote. "In every use of official power, the President is now a king above the law."
She was joined in her dissent by the court's two other liberal justices, Ketanji Brown Jackson and Elena Kagan.
Justice Jackson wrote in a separate dissent that the majority's ruling "breaks new and dangerous ground" by "discarding" the nation's long-held principle that no-one is above the law.
"That core principle has long prevented our Nation from devolving into despotism," she said.
Justice Sotomayor argued that the majority had invented a notion of absolute immunity for a president performing "official acts", even though it has at times been assumed that presidents could be prosecuted for things they did while in office.
She was visibly emotional as she spent more than 20 minutes reading out parts of her opinion on Monday.
She cited Richard Nixon getting pardoned by the president who succeeded him, Gerald Ford, for using his official powers to obstruct an investigation into the Watergate burglary - the scandal that eventually led to Mr Nixon's resignation.
Those involved in the case were under the presumption that Mr Nixon did not have immunity and could be prosecuted after leaving office, Justice Sotomayor wrote.
Her opinion went much further back in history as well. She quoted US Founding Father Alexander Hamilton, who wrote that former presidents would be "liable to prosecution and punishment in the ordinary course of law".
But the majority opinion, written by Chief Justice John Roberts, argued that the dissenters "strike a tone of chilling doom that is wholly disproportionate to what the Court actually does today".
He wrote that the liberal justices were "fear mongering on the basis of extreme hypotheticals" and dismissed their legal reasoning as weak.
Normally, court dissents include the word “respectfully” but Ms Sotomayor signed off hers by writing: “With fear for our democracy, I dissent.”


 
 
Ah oui, ils font pas semblant.

n°70963801
the veggie​ boy
Hiromatsu-sama
Posté le 02-07-2024 à 03:27:34  profilanswer
 

Bweezy a écrit :


 
'tain, t'es culotté quand même.
 
Il se porte bien Bloomberg ?


Y’a rien de culotté, c’est ce qui est rapporté par toutes les sources  [:cerveau spamafote]


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n°70963807
Blackhawk8
Posté le 02-07-2024 à 04:06:15  profilanswer
 

Biden est beaucoup moins optimiste sur la décision du SCOTUS
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQ-8VXFBzG8

n°70963818
Un Lurkeur​ Serieux
Un lulu Sérieux, hein voilà.
Posté le 02-07-2024 à 04:36:23  profilanswer
 

La fin de la démocratie américaine ? Ou le début de la fin ?
https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/c [...] fficially/


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Membre de la TEPA, la "Troupe d'Enculeurs de Pyramides Atlante", et pas de la TEMA, la "Troupe d'Enculeurs de Mouches Atlante", à ne pas confondre hein.
n°70963819
LeGrandMat​heux
Animateur
Posté le 02-07-2024 à 04:39:55  profilanswer
 

Quelques ajustements prévisibles...


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not my monkey, not my Circus.
n°70963837
iVador
Posté le 02-07-2024 à 05:43:31  profilanswer
 

Un Lurkeur Serieux a écrit :

La fin de la démocratie américaine ? Ou le début de la fin ?
https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/c [...] fficially/


C’est l’idiocratie qui est en train de démolir les démocraties partout dans le monde. En France y compris.

n°70964143
broddok27
Posté le 02-07-2024 à 08:12:40  profilanswer
 

Un Lurkeur Serieux a écrit :

La fin de la démocratie américaine ? Ou le début de la fin ?
https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/c [...] fficially/


 
Bien sûr. Tu appliques leur truc, leur démocratie telle qu'elle existe depuis presque 250 ans disparaît. C'est une véritable menace historique ce que la SCOTUS vient de pondre, et ses répercussions sur le reste du monde sont d'autant considérable. Mais à part ça, Trump et Biden sont sur la marge d'erreur dans les sondages.  
 
On est en train de vivre un moment historique, mais pas le genre que tu as envie de vivre.

Message cité 1 fois
Message édité par broddok27 le 02-07-2024 à 08:16:37
n°70964189
bernardo56
Posté le 02-07-2024 à 08:24:07  profilanswer
 

Ce cadeau fait a Trump, incroyable, si il est elu en Novembre, gros risque pour la democratie americaine vu ce qu'il s'est passe la derniere fois...
 
Civil war serait il premonitoire ?  :D


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I don't need health care, I have Jesus  [:bisounours58:3]
n°70964254
tfpsly
Sly
Posté le 02-07-2024 à 08:37:19  profilanswer
 

Bon, bah Biden peut annuler la prochaine élection et rester président.

n°70964329
Leto 42
Globalement inoffensif
Posté le 02-07-2024 à 08:51:17  profilanswer
 

broddok27 a écrit :


 
Bien sûr. Tu appliques leur truc, leur démocratie telle qu'elle existe depuis presque 250 ans disparaît. C'est une véritable menace historique ce que la SCOTUS vient de pondre, et ses répercussions sur le reste du monde sont d'autant considérable. Mais à part ça, Trump et Biden sont sur la marge d'erreur dans les sondages.  
 
On est en train de vivre un moment historique, mais pas le genre que tu as envie de vivre.


Ça fait déjà quelques années que j’ai l’impression de vivre un remake de l’Allemagne de 1930. Je m’étais toujours demandé comment le monde avait pu laisser les nazis arriver au pouvoir sans réagir, maintenant je sais.


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Le jeu du screenshot, le retour
n°70964364
Proust4
gynécologue au black
Posté le 02-07-2024 à 08:55:52  profilanswer
 

Je n'ai pas pu suivre les dernières actus, le débat fut si catastrophique que ça pour Biden? Une âme charitable pour faire un petit résumé ?


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It's only smell!
n°70964366
_OttO_
Rital contrarié
Posté le 02-07-2024 à 08:56:04  profilanswer
 

leyo23 a écrit :


 
 
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c035zqe7lgro
 

Citation :

"Orders the Navy's Seal Team 6 to assassinate a political rival?" she wrote. "Immune."
"Organizes a military coup to hold onto power? Immune. Takes a bribe in exchange for a pardon? Immune. Immune, immune, immune."
"Even if these nightmare scenarios never play out, and I pray they never do, the damage has been done," Justice Sotomayor wrote. "In every use of official power, the President is now a king above the law."
She was joined in her dissent by the court's two other liberal justices, Ketanji Brown Jackson and Elena Kagan.
Justice Jackson wrote in a separate dissent that the majority's ruling "breaks new and dangerous ground" by "discarding" the nation's long-held principle that no-one is above the law.
"That core principle has long prevented our Nation from devolving into despotism," she said.
Justice Sotomayor argued that the majority had invented a notion of absolute immunity for a president performing "official acts", even though it has at times been assumed that presidents could be prosecuted for things they did while in office.
She was visibly emotional as she spent more than 20 minutes reading out parts of her opinion on Monday.
She cited Richard Nixon getting pardoned by the president who succeeded him, Gerald Ford, for using his official powers to obstruct an investigation into the Watergate burglary - the scandal that eventually led to Mr Nixon's resignation.
Those involved in the case were under the presumption that Mr Nixon did not have immunity and could be prosecuted after leaving office, Justice Sotomayor wrote.
Her opinion went much further back in history as well. She quoted US Founding Father Alexander Hamilton, who wrote that former presidents would be "liable to prosecution and punishment in the ordinary course of law".
But the majority opinion, written by Chief Justice John Roberts, argued that the dissenters "strike a tone of chilling doom that is wholly disproportionate to what the Court actually does today".
He wrote that the liberal justices were "fear mongering on the basis of extreme hypotheticals" and dismissed their legal reasoning as weak.
Normally, court dissents include the word “respectfully” but Ms Sotomayor signed off hers by writing: “With fear for our democracy, I dissent.”


 
 
Ah oui, ils font pas semblant.


 
Honnêtement, c'est à un tel niveau d'interprétation partisane d'un principe fondamental au profit d'un candidat en campagne, et qui a déjà montré sa violence contre les institutions, qu'on peut très sérieusement se demander à quel point il y aurait collusion directe entre les équipes Trump et les juges.
 


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Giant -
n°70964367
CAMPEDEL
⭐ Cibus vitam, vinum veritas ⭐
Posté le 02-07-2024 à 08:56:14  profilanswer
 

Leto 42 a écrit :


Ça fait déjà quelques années que j’ai l’impression de vivre un remake de l’Allemagne de 1930. Je m’étais toujours demandé comment le monde avait pu laisser les nazis arriver au pouvoir sans réagir, maintenant je sais.


C'est exactement ça.

 

Et en France c'est encore plus vicieux aujourd'hui car le RN fait ça avec douceur/hypocrisie/mensonge par ommision.


Message édité par CAMPEDEL le 02-07-2024 à 08:57:24

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Maison, Ruptures, Ingénierie du bâtiment, Bougnats, Bonus Croustillant
n°70964400
markesz
Destination danger
Posté le 02-07-2024 à 09:02:55  profilanswer
 

the veggie boy a écrit :


 
la femme de Biden a dit non, donc c'est non, vu que c'est elle qui decide et pas le DNC ou les electeurs, apparemment


 
La femme de Biden est en fait sa tutrice, puisque lui n'y comprend plus rien. [:ximothov]  


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Il y aura de la casse partout.
n°70964791
Skopos
Posté le 02-07-2024 à 09:56:49  profilanswer
 

Bon ben reste à convaincre old Joe de faire abattre Trump et la Scotus.

n°70965249
broddok27
Posté le 02-07-2024 à 10:43:02  profilanswer
 

Leto 42 a écrit :


Ça fait déjà quelques années que j’ai l’impression de vivre un remake de l’Allemagne de 1930. Je m’étais toujours demandé comment le monde avait pu laisser les nazis arriver au pouvoir sans réagir, maintenant je sais.


 
Je pense que c'est pire que dans les années 1930, AMHA. Le trip autoritariste populiste est bien plus généralisé sur la planète qu'il ne l'a été dans les années 30 et en plus va abattre des contre-pouvoirs sans avoir besoin d'un parti unique ou de mettre des opposants en prison.  
 
Quand tu étais Juif allemand dans les années 30, avec assez d'argent tu pouvais espérer partir chez les voisins. Aujourd'hui, chez nos voisins allemands, italiens, néerlandais ou britannique, ils ont eux aussi leur populiste qui peuvent remporter de prochaines élections. Tu ne peux pas fuire la haine cette fois ; tu la prendras la version locale dans la tronche oú que tu ailles.  
 
Et ça peut durer plusieurs décennies comme ça, car lorsque tu n'as plus de contre-pouvoirs il y a plus de retour arrière.  
 
Si il y a un moment oú leur sacro-saint 2nd Amendement peut servir, c'est celui-là.

n°70965269
Xamoth
Slapping young trads
Posté le 02-07-2024 à 10:46:04  profilanswer
 

Proust4 a écrit :

Je n'ai pas pu suivre les dernières actus, le débat fut si catastrophique que ça pour Biden? Une âme charitable pour faire un petit résumé ?


Biden = vieux et sénile.
Trump = énergique qui sait faire passer des idées complexes avec des mots très simples.
 
De rien. :o

mood
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