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S'il faut choisir, Trump ou DeSantis ?




Attention si vous cliquez sur "voir les résultats" vous ne pourrez plus voter

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[US Politics]

n°56346799
juan-natal​ la pagina
Bonsoir.
Posté le 18-04-2019 à 20:59:23  profilanswer
 

Reprise du message précédent :

- gab a écrit :

Déclaration de Nadler (House Judiciary Chairman) soon.


En attendant :

Citation :

Jerry Nadler, the Democratic Chair of the House Judiciary Committee, will be issuing a subpoena for the full, unredacted Mueller report.

 

La saga continue :D


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Bonsoir.
mood
Publicité
Posté le 18-04-2019 à 20:59:23  profilanswer
 

n°56346884
vsfa
Mais c'est quoi ces finitions!
Posté le 18-04-2019 à 21:10:19  profilanswer
 

https://twitter.com/voxdotcom/statu [...] 9885001728

Citation :


This was President Trump’s initial response when he heard about special counsel Robert Mueller’s appointment in May 2017:  


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D4c9xEmWsAUcioO.jpg
 
Serein les gars....serein....


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VsFa :jap: | ID PSN: vsfa
n°56346936
iVador
Posté le 18-04-2019 à 21:17:12  profilanswer
 

C’est sur qu’un mec innocent réagit comme ça. Limpide.

n°56347043
nounounoun​ou
Posté le 18-04-2019 à 21:32:08  profilanswer
 

vsfa a écrit :

https://twitter.com/voxdotcom/statu [...] 9885001728

Citation :


This was President Trump’s initial response when he heard about special counsel Robert Mueller’s appointment in May 2017:  


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D4c9xEmWsAUcioO.jpg
 
Serein les gars....serein....


en tout cas les commentaires des trumpets en dessous :  ... ils doutent de rien les gars :)


---------------
Le con ne perd jamais son temps. Il perd celui des autres.( Frédéric Dard) Ce que l'on conçoit bien s'énonce clairement, et les mots pour le dire arrivent aisément.(Nicolas Boileau)
n°56347127
Mac_Lane
Posté le 18-04-2019 à 21:44:07  profilanswer
 

Citation :

If there’s no collusion and no obstruction, why so many lies?
 
Vol II, Page 77: The President and White House aides initially advanced a pretextual reason to the press and the public for Comey’s termination … The initial reliance on a pretextual justification could support an inference that the President had concerns about providing the real reason for the firing, although the evidence does not resolve whether those concerns were personal, political, or both.
 
One of the biggest questions of the past two years — something that fueled the news coverage, the federal investigation and congressional scrutiny — is why so many people around Mr. Trump lied, misled and changed their stories. People hoping that Mr. Mueller would resolve those questions will be disappointed. Time and again, Mr. Mueller seems as confused as anyone else about the motives.


 
J'hallucine quand je vois des trucs comme ça [:prozac]

n°56347231
MacEugene
This is the Way.
Posté le 18-04-2019 à 22:01:32  profilanswer
 

zad38 a écrit :


Amusant de comparer ces deux liens partagés presque en même temps.
D'un côté un thread twitter qui tente de sauver la narrative en se basant sur des hypothèses fortes et très peu sur des faits (en gros le résumé de Barr serait trompeur, dans le but d'imposer une vision au public). Avec des dizaines de démocrates qui approuvent en mode mais oui c'est l'évidence, les médias sont nuls de se faire avoir comme ça (sic).
De l'autre un article prenant du recul sur les deux dernières années, et basé sur des faits.
Je pense que c'est assez représentatif de l'état d'esprit des uns et des autres...


 
 

Citation :

Nailed this. Here's what Barr cut off: "ALTHOUGH the investigation established ... that the Campaign expected it would benefit electorally from information stolen and released through Russian efforts." Seems relevant.


 
https://twitter.com/eliehonig/statu [...] 0931108864
 
 [:jean 2 makoun aguero:5]


---------------
Chaos is where we are when we don't known where we are, and what we are doing when we don't know what we are doing. The Intellectual We Deserve
n°56347244
- gab
Posté le 18-04-2019 à 22:04:04  profilanswer
 

J'attends le post d'aurore boréale pour nous expliquer de façon sentencieuse en quoi les critiques de Barr ont tort :o


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Chounette ♥ | Oh ouiiiiiii il l'a fait, incroyable , c'est le dieu du tennis
n°56347248
Cuistot
Philosophe éleveur de poules
Posté le 18-04-2019 à 22:04:57  profilanswer
 

- gab a écrit :

J'attends le post d'aurore boréale pour nous expliquer de façon sentencieuse en quoi les critiques de Barr ont tort :o


tout dépend le niveau que Barr atteint :o


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docteur, docteur & docteur en hyper recherches propres... . -. -..   -. ..- -.. . ...
n°56347409
Mac_Lane
Posté le 18-04-2019 à 22:31:52  profilanswer
 

Citation :

The Guardian’s Ed Pilkington spotted this important passage as he fastidiously pours over the 448-page document.
 
Mueller lays out clear evidence that Trump attempted to lean on a couple of key witnesses to deflect the Russia inquiry away from him. The first was Paul Manafort.
 
Mueller recounts how Trump essentially dangled the promise of a pardon in front of his former campaign manager. “The president made repeated statements suggesting that a pardon was a possibility for Manafort, while also making it clear that the president did not want Manafort to ‘flip’.”
 
The report concludes that “with respect to Manafort, there is evidence that the president’s actions had the potential to influence Manafort’s decision whether to cooperate with the government.”
 
The second key witness was former White House counsel Don McGahn. Not only did Trump order McGahn to fire Mueller himself at a time when the Russia investigation was generating heat, but when the story of that order leaked to the press he ordered McGahn to lie and deny it.
 
Here’s the killer quote: “Substantial evidence indicates that in repeatedly urging McGahn to dispute that he was ordered to have the special counsel terminated, the president acted for the purpose of influencing McGahn’s account in order to deflect or prevent further scrutiny of the president’s conduct toward the investigation.”

In both these cases, Mueller is making a crystal clear case of witness tampering. As he explains in other parts of his report, he decided not to recommend charges on these or any other counts, not because – as the attorney general Bill Barr later ruled – there was insufficient evidence.
 
On the contrary, Mueller says there is plenty of evidence. But he is leaving the dilemma of what to do with it up to Congress.


 
Au Congrès de faire son taff.

n°56347434
- gab
Posté le 18-04-2019 à 22:35:27  profilanswer
 

C'est chaud quand même de renvoyer la patate chaude au Congrès quand on voit la détermination du GOP à faire en sorte que ça ne mène à rien.

 

Déjà si la Chambre arrive à faire témoigner les POI sans passer par des mois de contestation de subpoenas ça sera quelque chose.


Message édité par - gab le 18-04-2019 à 22:36:10

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Chounette ♥ | Oh ouiiiiiii il l'a fait, incroyable , c'est le dieu du tennis
mood
Publicité
Posté le 18-04-2019 à 22:35:27  profilanswer
 

n°56347438
moreweed
Posté le 18-04-2019 à 22:35:43  profilanswer
 

Mac_Lane a écrit :

Citation :

The Guardian’s Ed Pilkington spotted this important passage as he fastidiously pours over the 448-page document.
 
Mueller lays out clear evidence that Trump attempted to lean on a couple of key witnesses to deflect the Russia inquiry away from him. The first was Paul Manafort.
 
Mueller recounts how Trump essentially dangled the promise of a pardon in front of his former campaign manager. “The president made repeated statements suggesting that a pardon was a possibility for Manafort, while also making it clear that the president did not want Manafort to ‘flip’.”
 
The report concludes that “with respect to Manafort, there is evidence that the president’s actions had the potential to influence Manafort’s decision whether to cooperate with the government.”
 
The second key witness was former White House counsel Don McGahn. Not only did Trump order McGahn to fire Mueller himself at a time when the Russia investigation was generating heat, but when the story of that order leaked to the press he ordered McGahn to lie and deny it.
 
Here’s the killer quote: “Substantial evidence indicates that in repeatedly urging McGahn to dispute that he was ordered to have the special counsel terminated, the president acted for the purpose of influencing McGahn’s account in order to deflect or prevent further scrutiny of the president’s conduct toward the investigation.”

In both these cases, Mueller is making a crystal clear case of witness tampering. As he explains in other parts of his report, he decided not to recommend charges on these or any other counts, not because – as the attorney general Bill Barr later ruled – there was insufficient evidence.
 
On the contrary, Mueller says there is plenty of evidence. But he is leaving the dilemma of what to do with it up to Congress.


 
Au Congrès de faire son taff.


C'est ce que je lis, la grosse différence entre Trump et Nixon, c'est le congrès.  
 

Spoiler :

Et les médias conservateurs


 


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Comprend pas les gens
n°56347663
broddok27
Posté le 18-04-2019 à 23:17:00  profilanswer
 

Hrolf a écrit :


 
Parfois vous êtes autant dans la fake news que lui.
 
Le rapport de Mueller parle du hack du DNC et Trump des mails effacés du serveur de H.Clinton.
 
Vous vous rendez compte à quel point vous tombez dans les travers de ceux que vous critiquez juste par ce que vous détestez Trump.


Mais de quel fake news tu parle?  :??:  
Les mails effacés de Hillary n'ont pas fuités par le hack du DNC?  [:transparency]

n°56347723
Teto
Ligne de fuite
Posté le 18-04-2019 à 23:31:18  profilanswer
 

Cuistot a écrit :


tout dépend le niveau que Barr atteint :o


Joli. [:fredmoul:1]


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I am Moanaaaaaaa !!! (et en version legit!)
n°56347782
zeleyou
Posté le 18-04-2019 à 23:46:15  profilanswer
 

moreweed a écrit :


C'est ce que je lis, la grosse différence entre Trump et Nixon, c'est le congrès.  
 

Spoiler :

Et les médias conservateurs


 


:jap:

n°56347813
- gab
Posté le 18-04-2019 à 23:52:26  profilanswer
 

http://hfr.toyonos.info/smileys/generate/
 
http://reho.st/hfr.toyonos.info/smileys/generate/tmp/6eb7b75556291666ce5e7ff00c0b195d.smiley.png?foo=1555624336268


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Chounette ♥ | Oh ouiiiiiii il l'a fait, incroyable , c'est le dieu du tennis
n°56347837
Aurore bor​eale
Posté le 18-04-2019 à 23:58:44  profilanswer
 

Le raisonnement juridique de Mueller concernant la caractérisation de l'entrave à la justice est intéressant, ça éclaire la conclusion un peu sibylline qui avait transparu au sein du résumé publié par le DoJ il y a quelques semaines (ni inculpation ni 'exonération'). L'existence d'une infraction sous-jacente commise par l'individu mis en cause n'est pas un élément constitutif de l'infraction d'entrave à la justice, concernant laquelle les éléments à charge sont en l'occurrence abondants. Mais l'existence de l'intention de commettre une entrave à la justice est bien un élément constitutif de l'infraction, et Mueller a apparemment estimé que l'appréciation de l'existence de cette intention doit nécessairement être opérée en considération du fait que l'infraction sous-jacente (la conspiration entre la campagne Trump et les russes) n'a justement pas été établie, et que dès lors l'intention de commettre une obstruction à la justice ne peut pas être caractérisée juridiquement.

 

Mais là c'est simplement une opinion juridique de la part de Mueller, un juge pourrait très bien avoir une interprétation différente, et il semble évident que l'extrême sensibilité politique de l'affaire a pesé dans le jugement de Mueller.

Message cité 2 fois
Message édité par Aurore boreale le 18-04-2019 à 23:59:03

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Si dieu n'existe pas, c'est qu'il a probablement mieux à faire.
n°56347863
Dæmon
Posté le 19-04-2019 à 00:04:33  profilanswer
 

je ne suis pas certain de te suivre là dessus. Mueller semble a de multiples endroit renvoyer la décision au congrès. En leur disant qu'il y a largement de quoi faire niveau obstruction mais que au vu de l'implication que ca aurait de poursuivre un président en exercice, il préfère ne pas franchir ce pas et laisser la décision au congrès.
 
Petit détail que Barr a oublié de préciser dans son résumé des 480 pages lorsqu'il a sauté sur l'occasion pour dire que tout était OK :o
https://fivethirtyeight.com/feature [...] at-matter/

Citation :

Mueller’s report, however, is darker and more ambiguous. Mueller’s team found “multiple acts by the president that were capable of exerting undue influence over law enforcement investigations, including the Russian-interference and obstruction investigations.” And in many cases, Trump was kept out of further legal hot water by his staff’s unwillingness to carry out his directives, such as when his White House counsel refused to fire Mueller. Mueller pointedly wrote in the introduction to the section of the report dealing with obstruction that the report did not “exonerate” Trump. Mueller also wrote that he didn’t try to come to a conclusion about the president’s innocence or guilt because of a longstanding Justice Department policy that prevents a sitting president from being charged and put on trial — which he saw himself as bound by.


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|.:::.._On se retrouvera_..:::.|
n°56347870
Mac_Lane
Posté le 19-04-2019 à 00:06:57  profilanswer
 

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D4dUzaSX4AEGX47?format=jpg&name=large
 
Ce passage est assez accablant.

n°56347881
- gab
Posté le 19-04-2019 à 00:08:53  profilanswer
 


Tu peux le refaire différemment si tu préfères, via le lien donné :D
 
Sinon j'ai hâte d'entendre de quelle façon inepte il va flinguer la défense du clan Trump comme à son habitude.


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Chounette ♥ | Oh ouiiiiiii il l'a fait, incroyable , c'est le dieu du tennis
n°56347900
Aurore bor​eale
Posté le 19-04-2019 à 00:13:05  profilanswer
 


 
Extrait du rapport (vol 2 p.7) :
 

Citation :

Several features of the conduct we investigated distinguish it from typical obstruction-of- justice cases.[...]. Second, unlike cases in which a subject engages in obstruction of justice to cover up a crime, the evidence we obtained did not establish that the President was involved in an underlying crime related to Russian election interference. Although the obstruction statutes do not require proof of such a crime, the absence of that evidence affects the analysis of the President's intent and requires consideration of other possible motives for his conduct.

n°56348144
Invite_Sur​prise
Racaille de Shanghaï
Posté le 19-04-2019 à 02:38:08  profilanswer
 

juan-natal la pagina a écrit :


Fatshaming et bodyshaming dans le plus grand des calmes.
 
Aucun problème.


Monsieur Jean-Nathanaël de la Pagination, doit-on vraiment prendre ce patachon trolilol de Donaldo Trump en pitié ?
 
Lui, qui se moque ouvertement des handicapés, des minorités émergentes, qui chie sur la planète, qui se paye des teupus pronstarz pour se faire pépom le champi et qui se revendique en même temps d'une Morale qu'il ne s'applique pas ?
Lui, l'archétype typique du yankee asshole qui divise son peuple, mérite t'il autant de compassion ?
 
Je vous réponds sans travers que ce type est un étron et que dire que c'est juste un "fatassss", c'est vraiment pas grand chose à l’orée de sa chiasse quotidienne permanente.

n°56348169
Ryan
Foupoudav
Posté le 19-04-2019 à 03:55:25  profilanswer
 

Invite_Surprise a écrit :


Monsieur Jean-Nathanaël de la Pagination, doit-on vraiment prendre ce patachon trolilol de Donaldo Trump en pitié ?
 
Lui, qui se moque ouvertement des handicapés, des minorités émergentes, qui chie sur la planète, qui se paye des teupus pronstarz pour se faire pépom le champi et qui se revendique en même temps d'une Morale qu'il ne s'applique pas ?
Lui, l'archétype typique du yankee asshole qui divise son peuple, mérite t'il autant de compassion ?
 
Je vous réponds sans travers que ce type est un étron et que dire que c'est juste un "fatassss", c'est vraiment pas grand chose à l’orée de sa chiasse quotidienne permanente.


 
 
Propre  [:julian33:4]

n°56348233
Mac_Lane
Posté le 19-04-2019 à 06:56:12  profilanswer
 

Les unes du New York Times et du Washington Post :
 
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D4ep_iQWwAEYNV1?format=jpg&name=medium
 
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D4ewIEEW4AEhCwP?format=jpg&name=medium
 
Nancy Pelosi qui semble se rapprocher du lancement d'une procédure d'impeachment :
 
https://twitter.com/JakeSherman/sta [...] 5616573441
 

Citation :

Jake Sherman @JakeSherman
 
NEW.. PELOSI announces Monday conference call in letter to democrats and says this:


 
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D4eY2TMWAAAxDao?format=jpg&name=small

n°56348273
Mephy5
Posté le 19-04-2019 à 07:16:47  profilanswer
 

Le contenu de ce message a été effacé par son auteur

n°56348277
iVador
Posté le 19-04-2019 à 07:18:16  profilanswer
 

But ... but Hillary ... but her emails ! [:tim_coucou]


Message édité par iVador le 19-04-2019 à 07:18:43
n°56348303
Mephy5
Posté le 19-04-2019 à 07:26:35  profilanswer
 

Le contenu de ce message a été effacé par son auteur

n°56348331
Mephy5
Posté le 19-04-2019 à 07:42:29  profilanswer
 

Le contenu de ce message a été effacé par son auteur

n°56348352
MacEugene
This is the Way.
Posté le 19-04-2019 à 07:50:14  profilanswer
 

Aurore boreale a écrit :

 

Extrait du rapport (vol 2 p.7) :

 
Citation :

Several features of the conduct we investigated distinguish it from typical obstruction-of- justice cases.[...]. Second, unlike cases in which a subject engages in obstruction of justice to cover up a crime, the evidence we obtained did not establish that the President was involved in an underlying crime related to Russian election interference. Although the obstruction statutes do not require proof of such a crime, the absence of that evidence affects the analysis of the President's intent and requires consideration of other possible motives for his conduct.


 

Tu oublies un autre passage

 
Citation :

First, the conduct involved actions by the President. Some of the conduct did not implicate the President’s constitutional authority and raises garden-variety obstruction-of-justice issues. Other events we investigated, however, drew upon the President’s Article II authority, which raised constitutional issues that we address in Volume II, Section III.B, infra. A factual analysis of that conduct would have to take into account both that the President’s acts were facially lawful and that his position as head of the Executive Branch provides him with unique and powerful means of influencing official proceedings, subordinate officers, and potential witnesses.

 

Second, many obstruction cases involve the attempted or actual cover-up of an underlying crime. Personal criminal conduct can furnish strong evidence that the individual had an improper obstructive purpose, see, e.g., United States v. Willoughby, 860 F.2d 15, 24 (2d Cir. 1988), or that he contemplated an effect on an official proceeding, see, e.g., United States v. Binday, 804 F.3d 558, 591 (2d Cir. 2015). But proof of such a crime is not an element of an obstruction offense. See United States v. Greer, 872 F.3d 790, 798 (6th Cir. 2017) (stating, in applying the obstruction sentencing guideline, that “obstruction of a criminal investigation is punishable even if the prosecution is ultimately unsuccessful or even if the investigation ultimately reveals no underlying crime”). Obstruction of justice can be motivated by a desire to protect non-criminal personal interests, to protect against investigations where underlying criminal liability falls into a gray area, or to avoid personal embarrassment. The injury to the integrity of the justice system is the same regardless of whether a person committed an underlying wrong.

 

In this investigation, the evidence does not establish that the President was involved in an underlying crime related to Russian election interference. But the evidence does point to a range of other possible personal motives animating the President’s conduct. These include concerns that continued investigation would call into question the legitimacy of his election and potential uncertainty about whether certain events—such as advance notice of WikiLeaks’s release of hacked information or the June 9, 2016 meeting between senior campaign officials and Russians—could be seen as criminal activity by the President, his campaign, or his family.

 

Third, many of the President’s acts directed at witnesses, including discouragement of cooperation with the government and suggestions of possible future pardons, occurred in public view. While it may be more difficult to establish that public-facing acts were motivated by a corrupt intent, the President’s power to influence actions, persons, and events is enhanced by his unique ability to attract attention through use of mass communications. And no principle of law excludes public acts from the scope of obstruction statutes. If the likely effect of the acts is to intimidate witnesses or alter their testimony, the justice system’s integrity is equally threatened.

 

Vol 2, 156-157


Message édité par MacEugene le 19-04-2019 à 07:51:36

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Chaos is where we are when we don't known where we are, and what we are doing when we don't know what we are doing. The Intellectual We Deserve
n°56348392
Mephy5
Posté le 19-04-2019 à 08:01:00  profilanswer
 

Le contenu de ce message a été effacé par son auteur

Message cité 1 fois
Message édité par Mephy5 le 19-04-2019 à 08:01:51
n°56348426
-Sniper-Wo​lf-
☢️ Mercenaire auꭗ RG ☢️
Posté le 19-04-2019 à 08:14:01  profilanswer
 


 
 
On avait déjà au moins la dernière phrase depuis quelques semaines, et je ne comprends toujours pas qu'on ait pas renvoyé à la gueule de chacun des républicains qui parlait de "Total exoneration" :
 
"Le rapport dit littéralement : does not exonerate him."


Message édité par -Sniper-Wolf- le 19-04-2019 à 08:14:14

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⮚ Les Archives de Sniper ⮘
| Science!
n°56348572
broddok27
Posté le 19-04-2019 à 08:40:05  profilanswer
 

Mephy5 a écrit :


The leak includes emails from seven key DNC staff members, and date from January 2015 to May 2016.[4] source wiki
 
During her tenure as United States Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton drew controversy by using her family's private email server for official communications rather than using official State Department email. Source wiki
 
67th United States Secretary of State January 21, 2009 – February 1, 2013 source wiki


 
Du coup çà justifie  

Hrolf a écrit :


 
Parfois vous êtes autant dans la fake news que lui.
 
Le rapport de Mueller parle du hack du DNC et Trump des mails effacés du serveur de H.Clinton.
 
Vous vous rendez compte à quel point vous tombez dans les travers de ceux que vous critiquez juste par ce que vous détestez Trump.


et de me comparer à un mec qui ments jusqu'à 20 fois par jour ?  [:transparency]


Message édité par broddok27 le 19-04-2019 à 08:59:19
n°56348604
Dæmon
Posté le 19-04-2019 à 08:44:01  profilanswer
 

Mephy5 a écrit :


Comme il ne conclue pas sur la collusion, il refuse de statuer sur l'obstruction d'un president "innocent" tout en laissant assez d'elements au congres pour le faire ?


vol2 p1/2
 

Citation :

First, a traditional prosecution or declination decision entails a binary determination to initiate or decline a prosecution, but we determined not to make a traditional prosecutorial judgment. The Office of Legal Counsel (OLC) has issued an opinion finding that “the indictment or criminal prosecution of a sitting President would impermissibly undermine the capacity of the executive branch to perform its constitutionally assigned functions” in violation of the constitutional separation of powers.” Given the role of the Special Counsel as an attorney in the Department of Justice and the framework of the Special Counsel regulations, see 28 U.S.C. § 515; 28 C.F.R. § 600.7(a), this Office accepted OLC’s legal conclusion for the purpose of exercising prosecutorial jurisdiction. And apart from OLC’s constitutional view, we recognized that a federal criminal accusation against a sitting President would place burdens on the President’s capacity to govern and potentially preempt constitutional processes for addressing presidential misconduct.  
 
Second, while the OLC opinion concludes that a sitting President may not be prosecuted, it recognizes that a criminal investigation during the President’s term is permissible. The OLC opinion also recognizes that a President does not have immunity after he leaves office. And if individuals other than the President committed an obstruction offense, they may be prosecuted at this time. Given those considerations, the facts known to us, and the strong public interest insafeguarding the integrity of the criminal justice system, we conducted a thorough factual investigation in order to preserve the evidence when memories were fresh and documentary materials were available.
 
Third, we considered whether to evaluate the conduct we investigated under the Justice Manual standards governing prosecution and declination decisions, but we determined not to apply an approach that could potentially result in a judgment that the President committed crimes. The threshold step under the Justice Manual standards is to assess whether a person’s conduct “constitutes a federal offense.” U.S. Dep’t of Justice, Justice Manual § 9-27.220 (2018) (Justice Manual). Fairness concerns counseled against potentially reaching that judgment when no charges can be brought. The ordinary means for an individual to respond to an accusation is through a speedy and public trial, with all the procedural protections that surround a criminal case. An individual who believes he was wrongly accused can use that process to seek to clear his name. In contrast, a prosecutor’s judgment that crimes were committed, but that no charges will be brought, affords no such adversarial opportunity for public name-clearing before an impartial adjudicator.  
 
The concerns about the fairness of such a determination would be heightened in the case of a sitting President, where a federal prosecutor’s accusation of a crime, even in an internal report, could carry consequences that extend beyond the realm of criminal justice. OLC noted similar concerns about sealed indictments. Even if an indictment were sealed during the President’s term, OLC reasoned, “it would be very difficult to preserve [an indictment’s] secrecy,” and if an indictment became public, “[t]he stigma and opprobrium” could imperil the President’s ability to govern.”  Although a prosecutor’s internal report would not represent a formal public accusation akin to an indictment, the possibility of the report’s public disclosure and the absence of a neutral adjudicatory forum to review its findings counseled against potentially determining that the person’s conduct constitutes a federal offense.” Justice Manual & 9-27.220.
 
Fourth, if we had confidence after a thorough investigation of the facts that the President clearly did not commit obstruction of justice, we would so state. Based on the facts and the applicable legal standards, however, we are unable to reach that judgment. The evidence we obtained about the President’s actions and intent presents difficult issues that prevent us from conclusively determining that no criminal conduct occurred. Accordingly, while this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him.


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|.:::.._On se retrouvera_..:::.|
n°56348679
broddok27
Posté le 19-04-2019 à 08:53:41  profilanswer
 

Dæmon a écrit :


vol2 p1/2
 

Citation :

First, a traditional prosecution or declination decision entails a binary determination to initiate or decline a prosecution, but we determined not to make a traditional prosecutorial judgment. The Office of Legal Counsel (OLC) has issued an opinion finding that “the indictment or criminal prosecution of a sitting President would impermissibly undermine the capacity of the executive branch to perform its constitutionally assigned functions” in violation of the constitutional separation of powers.” Given the role of the Special Counsel as an attorney in the Department of Justice and the framework of the Special Counsel regulations, see 28 U.S.C. § 515; 28 C.F.R. § 600.7(a), this Office accepted OLC’s legal conclusion for the purpose of exercising prosecutorial jurisdiction. And apart from OLC’s constitutional view, we recognized that a federal criminal accusation against a sitting President would place burdens on the President’s capacity to govern and potentially preempt constitutional processes for addressing presidential misconduct.  
 
Second, while the OLC opinion concludes that a sitting President may not be prosecuted, it recognizes that a criminal investigation during the President’s term is permissible. The OLC opinion also recognizes that a President does not have immunity after he leaves office. And if individuals other than the President committed an obstruction offense, they may be prosecuted at this time. Given those considerations, the facts known to us, and the strong public interest insafeguarding the integrity of the criminal justice system, we conducted a thorough factual investigation in order to preserve the evidence when memories were fresh and documentary materials were available.
 
Third, we considered whether to evaluate the conduct we investigated under the Justice Manual standards governing prosecution and declination decisions, but we determined not to apply an approach that could potentially result in a judgment that the President committed crimes. The threshold step under the Justice Manual standards is to assess whether a person’s conduct “constitutes a federal offense.” U.S. Dep’t of Justice, Justice Manual § 9-27.220 (2018) (Justice Manual). Fairness concerns counseled against potentially reaching that judgment when no charges can be brought. The ordinary means for an individual to respond to an accusation is through a speedy and public trial, with all the procedural protections that surround a criminal case. An individual who believes he was wrongly accused can use that process to seek to clear his name. In contrast, a prosecutor’s judgment that crimes were committed, but that no charges will be brought, affords no such adversarial opportunity for public name-clearing before an impartial adjudicator.  
 
The concerns about the fairness of such a determination would be heightened in the case of a sitting President, where a federal prosecutor’s accusation of a crime, even in an internal report, could carry consequences that extend beyond the realm of criminal justice. OLC noted similar concerns about sealed indictments. Even if an indictment were sealed during the President’s term, OLC reasoned, “it would be very difficult to preserve [an indictment’s] secrecy,” and if an indictment became public, “[t]he stigma and opprobrium” could imperil the President’s ability to govern.”  Although a prosecutor’s internal report would not represent a formal public accusation akin to an indictment, the possibility of the report’s public disclosure and the absence of a neutral adjudicatory forum to review its findings counseled against potentially determining that the person’s conduct constitutes a federal offense.” Justice Manual & 9-27.220.
 
Fourth, if we had confidence after a thorough investigation of the facts that the President clearly did not commit obstruction of justice, we would so state. Based on the facts and the applicable legal standards, however, we are unable to reach that judgment. The evidence we obtained about the President’s actions and intent presents difficult issues that prevent us from conclusively determining that no criminal conduct occurred. Accordingly, while this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him.



Mueller se refuse à poursuivre un Président en exercice car une accusation aussi grave incombe  au pouvoir législatif et non judiciaire? Est-ce bien cela qu'il faut comprendre?

n°56348744
mantel
Posté le 19-04-2019 à 09:04:55  profilanswer
 

broddok27 a écrit :


Mueller se refuse à poursuivre un Président en exercice car une accusation aussi grave incombe  au pouvoir législatif et non judiciaire? Est-ce bien cela qu'il faut comprendre?


 
oui

n°56348801
markesz
Destination danger
Posté le 19-04-2019 à 09:13:21  profilanswer
 

broddok27 a écrit :


Mueller se refuse à poursuivre un Président en exercice car une accusation aussi grave incombe  au pouvoir législatif et non judiciaire? Est-ce bien cela qu'il faut comprendre?


 
C'est quand même frustrant qu'après des mois et de millions investis pour trouver une preuve de collusion entre Trump et la Russie, Mueller doivent se rabattre sur "entrave à l'enquête" et laisser aux démocrates de poursuivre leur combat pour essayer de trouver des éléments pour destituer Trump. [:satrincha:1]  
 
C'est pas possible de le destituer à partir de ses multiples mensonges en tous genres depuis son élection ?


---------------
Il y aura de la casse partout.
mood
Publicité
Posté le   profilanswer
 

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