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Abattre des avions russes dans le ciel de l'OTAN nous ferait paraître


 
8.5 %
   11 votes
1.  Faibles : nous sommes plus forts que les Russes, nous devons simplement les éconduire en les escortant dehors
 
 
76.2 %
 99 votes
2.  Forts : du point de vue russe, qui ne comprend que la force, la Turquie a descendu un avion russe dans le ciel de l'OTAN en 2015
 
 
15.4 %
 20 votes
3.  Obi Wan nuke Palpoutine
 

Total : 140 votes (10 votes blancs)
Ce sondage est clos, vous ne pouvez plus voter
 Mot :   Pseudo :  
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Auteur Sujet :

Guerre en Ukraine - Rafale en vue /!\ FP

n°66243789
Errare
perseverare diabolicum
Posté le 29-06-2022 à 22:02:03  profilanswer
 

Reprise du message précédent :

terkae a écrit :


J'ai regardé ton historique, je me suis arreté à ton second post...


 
 
C'te cruauté sans nom .... C'est laid.

mood
Publicité
Posté le 29-06-2022 à 22:02:03  profilanswer
 

n°66243802
Chips
Posté le 29-06-2022 à 22:04:19  profilanswer
 

terkae a écrit :


J'ai regardé ton historique, je me suis arreté à ton second post...


 
[:k_raf:5]

n°66243813
Esiuol
Posté le 29-06-2022 à 22:05:44  profilanswer
 

terkae a écrit :


J'ai regardé ton historique, je me suis arreté à ton second post...


 
Jolie trouvaille  [:eneytihi:3]  
 
En effet, ses prédictions valent mieux que n’importe quel grand expert  [:super citron]
 
Edit : ca serait pas un copain à Cliff par hasard? :o


Message édité par Esiuol le 29-06-2022 à 22:07:17
n°66243824
Usernet
Since 2004
Posté le 29-06-2022 à 22:07:10  profilanswer
 

terkae a écrit :


J'ai regardé ton historique, je me suis arreté à ton second post...


 [:hollandais2:2]

n°66243842
Lebeaunath​an
Full LQQ
Posté le 29-06-2022 à 22:10:14  profilanswer
 

terkae a écrit :


J'ai regardé ton historique, je me suis arreté à ton second post...


La violence a un visage  :D

n°66243908
la campane​lla
Posté le 29-06-2022 à 22:20:24  profilanswer
 

celle là pour le coup je me suis planté mais encore une fois, comme tout le monde :)
mais bon, il a fait du cherry picking, pour le reste, j'ai eu plutot raison
exemple (posté en mars)
 

Citation :

Méfions nous quand même des biais d’infos
Je suis sur qu’en 39 on aurait pu se moquer de la même manière des performances soviétiques en Finlande  
Résultat l’URSS a finalement eu gain de cause sur l’ensemble de ses revendications  
 
La Russie a énormément de moyens humains et matériels  
Ils peuvent gagner le conflit a l’usure

Message cité 1 fois
Message édité par la campanella le 29-06-2022 à 22:25:05
n°66243957
SCEtoAUX
413 is in.
Posté le 29-06-2022 à 22:27:06  profilanswer
 

Cherry picking.  [:babouchka:8]


---------------
Above all, rating a spacecraft is more than a set of requirements, a process, or a certification. It involves a mindset, instilled by leadership, where each person feels personally responsible for their piece of the design and for the safety of the crew.
n°66243984
SFO
Posté le 29-06-2022 à 22:31:10  profilanswer
 


Si ca a déjà été dit, ben.... my bad.
 
 
 
Les USA vont livrer des NASAMS norvégiens à l'Ukraine (missiles sol-air haute précision, qui entre autres protègent la Maison Blanche sur une portée jusqu'à 180 km, et très bientôt le double.
La Norvège de son côté envisage de renforcer sérieusement son aide en NASAMS et autres munitions après le missile tombé à Krementchouk, considéré par Oslo comme crime de guerre.
 
La Russie répond (1) :
 
La Russie a mis en garde les premiers pays occidentaux contre la fourniture d'armes à l'Ukraine et a menacé de réagir. Ceux qui fournissent des armes à l'Ukraine seront responsables si ces armes sont utilisées pendant l'opération militaire russe. Ca date d'octobre 2020 mais pour l'instant, Poutine n'a pas intérêt à étendre le conflit, il va se faire lâcher par ses potes chinois, syrien, biélorusse, quant à ses capacités terrestres et techniques, c'est tout simplement la cata face aux moyens mis en œuvre...
 
La Russie répond (2) :
 
Plusieurs institutions (service du travail, une école, un groupe parlementaire...) ont subi une attaque informatique du groupe de hackers APT29 connu pour ses liens avec la Russie, qui a laissé en guise de "signalement" les portraits de Jens Stoltenberg (secrétaire général de l'Otan) et sa famille, ainsi que le portrait de Ine Eriksen Søreide, la ministre des Affaires Étrangères, et sa famille.
Travail de ploucs : quand on fixe une cible, on ne le dit pas, on la vise, et les hackers rigolos ne laissent habituellement pas ce genre de messages à peine sybillins
 
Pour l'instant, aucun lien n'a été établi entre le fana muslim qui a tiré sur un bar gay d'Oslo et la Russie. Le PST (service norvégien) n'en finit pas d'avoir des surprises et va très vite, mais doit confirmer les résultats de ses nombreuses présomptions...

n°66243988
teepodavig​non
Posté le 29-06-2022 à 22:31:53  profilanswer
 

sur liveuamap on voit une grosse diminution du tir d'obus en ce moment  [:cerveau skyzor]

Message cité 1 fois
Message édité par teepodavignon le 29-06-2022 à 22:32:11

---------------
Laurent est mon fils.
n°66243992
Esiuol
Posté le 29-06-2022 à 22:32:23  profilanswer
 

EXCLUSIVE EU nears compromise deal to defuse standoff with Russia over Kaliningrad
 

Citation :

VILNIUS/BRUSSELS, June 29 (Reuters) - Trade through Lithuania to the Russian exclave of Kaliningrad could return to normal within days, two sources familiar with the matter said, as European officials edge towards a compromise deal with the Baltic state to defuse a row with Moscow. Kaliningrad, which is bordered by European Union states and relies on railways and roads through Lithuania for most goods, has been cut off from some freight transport from mainland Russia since June 17 under sanctions imposed by Brussels.
 
European officials are in talks about exempting the territory from sanctions, which have hit industrial goods such as steel so far, paving the way for a deal in early July if EU member Lithuania drops its reservations, said the people, who declined to be named because the discussions are private. The row over the Russian exclave's isolation is testing Europe's resolve to enforce sanctions imposed following Russia's invasion of Ukraine, fuelling fears of an escalation after other restrictions pushed Russia to default on its debt.
 
While Western powers have pledged to stand up for Ukraine, reiterating their resolve at both G7 and NATO summits this week, it is proving hard for Europe both to stand by strict sanctions and avoid further escalation with Russia. That's why European officials, with the backing of Germany, are seeking a compromise to resolve one of their many conflicts with Moscow, said one of the people.
 
If the traditional route for Russian goods to Kaliningrad, first via its ally Belarus and then Lithuania, is not restored, the Baltic state fears Moscow could use military force to plough a land corridor through its territory, the person said. Germany, meanwhile, has soldiers stationed in Lithuania and could be sucked into a confrontation alongside its NATO allies if that were to happen.
 
Europe's biggest economy is also heavily reliant on Russian gas imports and would be vulnerable to any reduction in flows if the Kaliningrad dispute escalated.
 
"We have to face reality," said one person with direct knowledge of the EU discussions, describing Kaliningrad as "sacred" for Moscow.
 
"(Putin) has much more leverage than we have. It's in our interests to find a compromise," he said, conceding that the eventual outcome may appear unfair.

 
COMPROMISE DEAL
 
A spokesperson for Lithuania's foreign ministry said it will continue to consult with the European Commission about the application of sanctions and that any change by the bloc should not single out the Baltic state.
 
"Sanctions must be enforced, and any decisions taken should not undermine the credibility and effectiveness of EU sanctions policy," the spokesperson said.
 
"As Kaliningrad transit is possible through various EU member states, the European Commission's explanation of how to implement the EU sanctions ... cannot be limited to Lithuania."

 
A spokesperson for the European Commission pointed to its June 22 statement that Lithuania was implementing EU restrictions and that the supply of essential goods to Kaliningrad remained unhindered. One of the people with direct knowledge of the matter said they expected a compromise deal would be found by July 10 and a second person said it could be announced next week. One compromise could see the movement of freight between Russia and Kaliningrad exempt from EU sanctions on the grounds it does not count as normal international trade because the exclave is part of Russia, said one of those people.
 
That concession could only be made on condition sanctioned freight is used in Kaliningrad and not exported via its port, where Russia's Baltic Fleet is headquartered. That could be hard to guarantee and might put Lithuania, which is tasked with determining the end destination of goods, on a collision course with Russia, said the person.
 
Another person said humanitarian grounds could be used to carve out an exemption for Kaliningrad, which is sandwiched between Lithuania, Poland and the Baltic Sea. He said, however, that Lithuania had serious reservations about making what could be seen as a concession to Moscow.
 
ALCOHOL AND CEMENT
 
Lithuania, formerly ruled from Moscow, is now one of Russia's fiercest critics in the European Union and has been at odds with officials in Germany and Brussels who want to defuse the row. So far, EU sanctions against Russia prevent the transport of iron, steel and metals to Kaliningrad through EU states.
 
The list of sanctioned goods will extend to cement and alcohol from July 10, coal in August and oil products such as fuel in December. When the final phase kicks in, roughly half the freight sent to Kaliningrad from Russia will be sanctioned. Neither passengers nor food products are banned and Kaliningrad can still be reached by plane or sea.
 
While the United States and European Union have promptly rolled out sanctions to curb Russia's access to international finance and its sales of coal and oil, the punitive measures have done little to temper Russian military aggression. In recent weeks, Moscow has also turned the tables on Europe by paring back critical gas supplies, prompting Germany to brace for rationing and watch the escalating row over Kaliningrad with increasing apprehension.
 
Kaliningrad, which has a population of almost one million, was cut off from Moscow when Lithuania became independent during the break-up of the Soviet Union and residents must transit EU territory to reach the rest of Russia by land. Dmitry Medvedev, deputy chairman of Russia's Security Council, said this week that curbs on the shipment of goods to Kaliningrad were part of a Western proxy war and that Russia had numerous ways to retaliate.
 
"There are many opportunities, a significant part of them are of an economic nature and are capable of cutting off the oxygen to our Baltic neighbours who have taken hostile actions," he told a Russian newspaper.
 
"There is also the possibility of using asymmetric measures, which ... will cause a critical escalation of the conflict."

mood
Publicité
Posté le 29-06-2022 à 22:32:23  profilanswer
 

n°66244005
verdoux
And I'm still waiting
Posté le 29-06-2022 à 22:34:32  profilanswer
 

Cosmik Rodjeur a écrit :

Mon pote russe à Ekaterinburg qui me dit que les gens ont peur de mettre un " Z " sur leur voiture. Ils la retrouvent le matin avec les pneus creuvés [:clooney8]


Faut qu'ils ajoutent un b et un h
 [:cyfl]

n°66244010
Chips
Posté le 29-06-2022 à 22:36:01  profilanswer
 

la lithuanie c'est clairement la prochaine cible de poutine. si on précipite les choses faut qu'on soit prêts.

n°66244020
fredo3
Posté le 29-06-2022 à 22:38:24  profilanswer
 


Pour le coup je les trouve trop soft.

n°66244028
M300A
Posté le 29-06-2022 à 22:38:56  profilanswer
 

Chips a écrit :

la lithuanie c'est clairement la prochaine cible de poutine. si on précipite les choses faut qu'on soit prêts.

 

Il va envoyer un escadron de blessés ou de retraités ?  [:zirk]


---------------
:wq
n°66244033
SFO
Posté le 29-06-2022 à 22:39:37  profilanswer
 

LaRoueEstTombee a écrit :


Les norvégiens ont envahi l'Islande et on les accepterait dans l'OTAN [:ooinverse]

La Norvège est l'un des douze pays fondateurs de l'Otan le 24 août 1949, en même temps que l'Islande...
 
 :sleep:  
 
 


---------------
Putin, le cancéreux vert ? De rage
n°66244046
M300A
Posté le 29-06-2022 à 22:41:38  profilanswer
 

Sinon on sait pourquoi la Russie échange finalement les prisonniers d'azovstal, ou en tout cas une partie ? Je ne comprends pas le move la  :heink:


---------------
:wq
n°66244074
LaRoueEstT​ombee
Hortense ! Pour moi !
Posté le 29-06-2022 à 22:47:32  profilanswer
 

SFO a écrit :

La Norvège est l'un des douze pays fondateurs de l'Otan le 24 août 1949, en même temps que l'Islande...

 

:sleep:

 




Ah merde [:tinostar]

 

Ce mélange de bled du nord, c'est la faute d'errare :O


---------------
Votre couroux impitoiable Veut-il renverser l'Univers ?
n°66244075
antac
..
Posté le 29-06-2022 à 22:47:32  profilanswer
 

Franquin avait anticipé les missiles russes
https://i.postimg.cc/hvW90XLs/IMG-20220629-224450.jpg

n°66244131
SFO
Posté le 29-06-2022 à 23:00:06  profilanswer
 

Loup23 a écrit :


 
 
Déjà dit mais si déjà il pouvait reprendre les territoires conquis depuis le 24 février, voir les républiques indépendantistes.
 
Pour la Crimée c'est mort. La Russie ne la lâchera jamais.

Fais sauter le pont de Kertsch et tu vas voir les vrais russes fausses criméennes se barrer vers l'est en courant ou à la nage.  
Pour info : depuis le Tsar Vladimir-Souzdal jusque sous Staline, les soldats originaires de Krasnodar, après Rostov, un peu moins de Sotchi parce que moins peuplée, servaient de femmes de réconfort à leurs collègues venus de l'est et du nord, Kazakhs, Turkhmènes, Nenetz, Ouzbeks... et Tatars de ? Crimée ! Tchitchi ou tchitchi ? Tchitchi et la mort.  
Poutin de sa mère ne s'est pas montré aussi délicat.
 

n°66244144
bellemouss​e
que du bonheur
Posté le 29-06-2022 à 23:01:49  profilanswer
 


Idées noires   [:sud-kitsune]


Message édité par bellemousse le 29-06-2022 à 23:03:29

---------------
si la terre peut se passer de nous, nous n'avons aucune chance sans elle https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Xw4fZMurEg  Je voudrais être un arbre, boire à l'eau des orages https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_q1cwkvufo
n°66244164
the gaston​ lagaffe
Posté le 29-06-2022 à 23:05:49  profilanswer
 

Esiuol a écrit :

EXCLUSIVE EU nears compromise deal to defuse standoff with Russia over Kaliningrad

 
Citation :

VILNIUS/BRUSSELS, June 29 (Reuters) - Trade through Lithuania to the Russian exclave of Kaliningrad could return to normal within days, two sources familiar with the matter said, as European officials edge towards a compromise deal with the Baltic state to defuse a row with Moscow. Kaliningrad, which is bordered by European Union states and relies on railways and roads through Lithuania for most goods, has been cut off from some freight transport from mainland Russia since June 17 under sanctions imposed by Brussels.

 

European officials are in talks about exempting the territory from sanctions, which have hit industrial goods such as steel so far, paving the way for a deal in early July if EU member Lithuania drops its reservations, said the people, who declined to be named because the discussions are private. The row over the Russian exclave's isolation is testing Europe's resolve to enforce sanctions imposed following Russia's invasion of Ukraine, fuelling fears of an escalation after other restrictions pushed Russia to default on its debt.

 

While Western powers have pledged to stand up for Ukraine, reiterating their resolve at both G7 and NATO summits this week, it is proving hard for Europe both to stand by strict sanctions and avoid further escalation with Russia. That's why European officials, with the backing of Germany, are seeking a compromise to resolve one of their many conflicts with Moscow, said one of the people.

 

If the traditional route for Russian goods to Kaliningrad, first via its ally Belarus and then Lithuania, is not restored, the Baltic state fears Moscow could use military force to plough a land corridor through its territory, the person said. Germany, meanwhile, has soldiers stationed in Lithuania and could be sucked into a confrontation alongside its NATO allies if that were to happen.

 

Europe's biggest economy is also heavily reliant on Russian gas imports and would be vulnerable to any reduction in flows if the Kaliningrad dispute escalated.

 

"We have to face reality," said one person with direct knowledge of the EU discussions, describing Kaliningrad as "sacred" for Moscow.

 

"(Putin) has much more leverage than we have. It's in our interests to find a compromise," he said, conceding that the eventual outcome may appear unfair.

 

COMPROMISE DEAL

 

A spokesperson for Lithuania's foreign ministry said it will continue to consult with the European Commission about the application of sanctions and that any change by the bloc should not single out the Baltic state.

 

"Sanctions must be enforced, and any decisions taken should not undermine the credibility and effectiveness of EU sanctions policy," the spokesperson said.

 

"As Kaliningrad transit is possible through various EU member states, the European Commission's explanation of how to implement the EU sanctions ... cannot be limited to Lithuania."

 

A spokesperson for the European Commission pointed to its June 22 statement that Lithuania was implementing EU restrictions and that the supply of essential goods to Kaliningrad remained unhindered. One of the people with direct knowledge of the matter said they expected a compromise deal would be found by July 10 and a second person said it could be announced next week. One compromise could see the movement of freight between Russia and Kaliningrad exempt from EU sanctions on the grounds it does not count as normal international trade because the exclave is part of Russia, said one of those people.

 

That concession could only be made on condition sanctioned freight is used in Kaliningrad and not exported via its port, where Russia's Baltic Fleet is headquartered. That could be hard to guarantee and might put Lithuania, which is tasked with determining the end destination of goods, on a collision course with Russia, said the person.

 

Another person said humanitarian grounds could be used to carve out an exemption for Kaliningrad, which is sandwiched between Lithuania, Poland and the Baltic Sea. He said, however, that Lithuania had serious reservations about making what could be seen as a concession to Moscow.

 

ALCOHOL AND CEMENT

 

Lithuania, formerly ruled from Moscow, is now one of Russia's fiercest critics in the European Union and has been at odds with officials in Germany and Brussels who want to defuse the row. So far, EU sanctions against Russia prevent the transport of iron, steel and metals to Kaliningrad through EU states.

 

The list of sanctioned goods will extend to cement and alcohol from July 10, coal in August and oil products such as fuel in December. When the final phase kicks in, roughly half the freight sent to Kaliningrad from Russia will be sanctioned. Neither passengers nor food products are banned and Kaliningrad can still be reached by plane or sea.

 

While the United States and European Union have promptly rolled out sanctions to curb Russia's access to international finance and its sales of coal and oil, the punitive measures have done little to temper Russian military aggression. In recent weeks, Moscow has also turned the tables on Europe by paring back critical gas supplies, prompting Germany to brace for rationing and watch the escalating row over Kaliningrad with increasing apprehension.

 

Kaliningrad, which has a population of almost one million, was cut off from Moscow when Lithuania became independent during the break-up of the Soviet Union and residents must transit EU territory to reach the rest of Russia by land. Dmitry Medvedev, deputy chairman of Russia's Security Council, said this week that curbs on the shipment of goods to Kaliningrad were part of a Western proxy war and that Russia had numerous ways to retaliate.

 

"There are many opportunities, a significant part of them are of an economic nature and are capable of cutting off the oxygen to our Baltic neighbours who have taken hostile actions," he told a Russian newspaper.

 

"There is also the possibility of using asymmetric measures, which ... will cause a critical escalation of the conflict."


 


Bref comme d'hab les Allemands et leur gaz à la con.


---------------
Le topic du département de la Creuse -Viendez !
n°66244182
totsukaba
Code Quantum
Posté le 29-06-2022 à 23:10:29  profilanswer
 

Esiuol a écrit :

EXCLUSIVE EU nears compromise deal to defuse standoff with Russia over Kaliningrad
 

Citation :

VILNIUS/BRUSSELS, June 29 (Reuters) - Trade through Lithuania to the Russian exclave of Kaliningrad could return to normal within days, two sources familiar with the matter said, as European officials edge towards a compromise deal with the Baltic state to defuse a row with Moscow. Kaliningrad, which is bordered by European Union states and relies on railways and roads through Lithuania for most goods, has been cut off from some freight transport from mainland Russia since June 17 under sanctions imposed by Brussels.
 
European officials are in talks about exempting the territory from sanctions, which have hit industrial goods such as steel so far, paving the way for a deal in early July if EU member Lithuania drops its reservations, said the people, who declined to be named because the discussions are private. The row over the Russian exclave's isolation is testing Europe's resolve to enforce sanctions imposed following Russia's invasion of Ukraine, fuelling fears of an escalation after other restrictions pushed Russia to default on its debt.
 
While Western powers have pledged to stand up for Ukraine, reiterating their resolve at both G7 and NATO summits this week, it is proving hard for Europe both to stand by strict sanctions and avoid further escalation with Russia. That's why European officials, with the backing of Germany, are seeking a compromise to resolve one of their many conflicts with Moscow, said one of the people.
 
If the traditional route for Russian goods to Kaliningrad, first via its ally Belarus and then Lithuania, is not restored, the Baltic state fears Moscow could use military force to plough a land corridor through its territory, the person said. Germany, meanwhile, has soldiers stationed in Lithuania and could be sucked into a confrontation alongside its NATO allies if that were to happen.
 
Europe's biggest economy is also heavily reliant on Russian gas imports and would be vulnerable to any reduction in flows if the Kaliningrad dispute escalated.
 
"We have to face reality," said one person with direct knowledge of the EU discussions, describing Kaliningrad as "sacred" for Moscow.
 
"(Putin) has much more leverage than we have. It's in our interests to find a compromise," he said, conceding that the eventual outcome may appear unfair.

 
COMPROMISE DEAL
 
A spokesperson for Lithuania's foreign ministry said it will continue to consult with the European Commission about the application of sanctions and that any change by the bloc should not single out the Baltic state.
 
"Sanctions must be enforced, and any decisions taken should not undermine the credibility and effectiveness of EU sanctions policy," the spokesperson said.
 
"As Kaliningrad transit is possible through various EU member states, the European Commission's explanation of how to implement the EU sanctions ... cannot be limited to Lithuania."

 
A spokesperson for the European Commission pointed to its June 22 statement that Lithuania was implementing EU restrictions and that the supply of essential goods to Kaliningrad remained unhindered. One of the people with direct knowledge of the matter said they expected a compromise deal would be found by July 10 and a second person said it could be announced next week. One compromise could see the movement of freight between Russia and Kaliningrad exempt from EU sanctions on the grounds it does not count as normal international trade because the exclave is part of Russia, said one of those people.
 
That concession could only be made on condition sanctioned freight is used in Kaliningrad and not exported via its port, where Russia's Baltic Fleet is headquartered. That could be hard to guarantee and might put Lithuania, which is tasked with determining the end destination of goods, on a collision course with Russia, said the person.
 
Another person said humanitarian grounds could be used to carve out an exemption for Kaliningrad, which is sandwiched between Lithuania, Poland and the Baltic Sea. He said, however, that Lithuania had serious reservations about making what could be seen as a concession to Moscow.
 
ALCOHOL AND CEMENT
 
Lithuania, formerly ruled from Moscow, is now one of Russia's fiercest critics in the European Union and has been at odds with officials in Germany and Brussels who want to defuse the row. So far, EU sanctions against Russia prevent the transport of iron, steel and metals to Kaliningrad through EU states.
 
The list of sanctioned goods will extend to cement and alcohol from July 10, coal in August and oil products such as fuel in December. When the final phase kicks in, roughly half the freight sent to Kaliningrad from Russia will be sanctioned. Neither passengers nor food products are banned and Kaliningrad can still be reached by plane or sea.
 
While the United States and European Union have promptly rolled out sanctions to curb Russia's access to international finance and its sales of coal and oil, the punitive measures have done little to temper Russian military aggression. In recent weeks, Moscow has also turned the tables on Europe by paring back critical gas supplies, prompting Germany to brace for rationing and watch the escalating row over Kaliningrad with increasing apprehension.
 
Kaliningrad, which has a population of almost one million, was cut off from Moscow when Lithuania became independent during the break-up of the Soviet Union and residents must transit EU territory to reach the rest of Russia by land. Dmitry Medvedev, deputy chairman of Russia's Security Council, said this week that curbs on the shipment of goods to Kaliningrad were part of a Western proxy war and that Russia had numerous ways to retaliate.
 
"There are many opportunities, a significant part of them are of an economic nature and are capable of cutting off the oxygen to our Baltic neighbours who have taken hostile actions," he told a Russian newspaper.
 
"There is also the possibility of using asymmetric measures, which ... will cause a critical escalation of the conflict."



 
L'allemagne qui se couche sans concession comme d'hab, vont finir par rendre l'allemagne de l'est à poutine.


---------------
flickr
n°66244204
arthas77
Posté le 29-06-2022 à 23:13:42  profilanswer
 

Citation :

Russie: La production automobile s'effondre de 96,7% en mai


Tout va bien en Russie  :o

n°66244243
radioactif
Mighty mighty man
Posté le 29-06-2022 à 23:19:05  profilanswer
 

totsukaba a écrit :


 
L'allemagne qui se couche sans concession comme d'hab, vont finir par rendre l'allemagne de l'est à poutine.


Notons que c’est la première fois qu’on voit, ou au moins que je vois, le compromis énergétique, enfin la compromission plutôt, explicitement formulé.
 
J’aime beaucoup le jeu de la Lituanie.


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"La physique, c'est les mathématiques du branleur curieux"© | "Les gens ont tellement peur d'avoir un futur pourri qu'ils se font facilement a l'idee d'avoir un present de merde, en somme"©
n°66244248
SFO
Posté le 29-06-2022 à 23:19:58  profilanswer
 

Esiuol a écrit :

EXCLUSIVE EU nears compromise deal to defuse standoff with Russia over Kaliningrad
 

Citation :

VILNIUS/BRUSSELS, June 29 (Reuters) - Trade through Lithuania to the Russian exclave of Kaliningrad could return to normal within days, two sources familiar with the matter said, as European officials edge towards a compromise deal with the Baltic state to defuse a row with Moscow. Kaliningrad, which is bordered by European Union states and relies on railways and roads through Lithuania for most goods, has been cut off from some freight transport from mainland Russia since June 17 under sanctions imposed by Brussels.
 
European officials are in talks about exempting the territory from sanctions, which have hit industrial goods such as steel so far, paving the way for a deal in early July if EU member Lithuania drops its reservations, said the people, who declined to be named because the discussions are private. The row over the Russian exclave's isolation is testing Europe's resolve to enforce sanctions imposed following Russia's invasion of Ukraine, fuelling fears of an escalation after other restrictions pushed Russia to default on its debt.
 
While Western powers have pledged to stand up for Ukraine, reiterating their resolve at both G7 and NATO summits this week, it is proving hard for Europe both to stand by strict sanctions and avoid further escalation with Russia. That's why European officials, with the backing of Germany, are seeking a compromise to resolve one of their many conflicts with Moscow, said one of the people.
 
If the traditional route for Russian goods to Kaliningrad, first via its ally Belarus and then Lithuania, is not restored, the Baltic state fears Moscow could use military force to plough a land corridor through its territory, the person said. Germany, meanwhile, has soldiers stationed in Lithuania and could be sucked into a confrontation alongside its NATO allies if that were to happen.
 
Europe's biggest economy is also heavily reliant on Russian gas imports and would be vulnerable to any reduction in flows if the Kaliningrad dispute escalated.
 
"We have to face reality," said one person with direct knowledge of the EU discussions, describing Kaliningrad as "sacred" for Moscow.
 
"(Putin) has much more leverage than we have. It's in our interests to find a compromise," he said, conceding that the eventual outcome may appear unfair.

 
COMPROMISE DEAL
 
A spokesperson for Lithuania's foreign ministry said it will continue to consult with the European Commission about the application of sanctions and that any change by the bloc should not single out the Baltic state.
 
"Sanctions must be enforced, and any decisions taken should not undermine the credibility and effectiveness of EU sanctions policy," the spokesperson said.
 
"As Kaliningrad transit is possible through various EU member states, the European Commission's explanation of how to implement the EU sanctions ... cannot be limited to Lithuania."

 
A spokesperson for the European Commission pointed to its June 22 statement that Lithuania was implementing EU restrictions and that the supply of essential goods to Kaliningrad remained unhindered. One of the people with direct knowledge of the matter said they expected a compromise deal would be found by July 10 and a second person said it could be announced next week. One compromise could see the movement of freight between Russia and Kaliningrad exempt from EU sanctions on the grounds it does not count as normal international trade because the exclave is part of Russia, said one of those people.
 
That concession could only be made on condition sanctioned freight is used in Kaliningrad and not exported via its port, where Russia's Baltic Fleet is headquartered. That could be hard to guarantee and might put Lithuania, which is tasked with determining the end destination of goods, on a collision course with Russia, said the person.
 
Another person said humanitarian grounds could be used to carve out an exemption for Kaliningrad, which is sandwiched between Lithuania, Poland and the Baltic Sea. He said, however, that Lithuania had serious reservations about making what could be seen as a concession to Moscow.
 
ALCOHOL AND CEMENT
 
Lithuania, formerly ruled from Moscow, is now one of Russia's fiercest critics in the European Union and has been at odds with officials in Germany and Brussels who want to defuse the row. So far, EU sanctions against Russia prevent the transport of iron, steel and metals to Kaliningrad through EU states.
 
The list of sanctioned goods will extend to cement and alcohol from July 10, coal in August and oil products such as fuel in December. When the final phase kicks in, roughly half the freight sent to Kaliningrad from Russia will be sanctioned. Neither passengers nor food products are banned and Kaliningrad can still be reached by plane or sea.
 
While the United States and European Union have promptly rolled out sanctions to curb Russia's access to international finance and its sales of coal and oil, the punitive measures have done little to temper Russian military aggression. In recent weeks, Moscow has also turned the tables on Europe by paring back critical gas supplies, prompting Germany to brace for rationing and watch the escalating row over Kaliningrad with increasing apprehension.
 
Kaliningrad, which has a population of almost one million, was cut off from Moscow when Lithuania became independent during the break-up of the Soviet Union and residents must transit EU territory to reach the rest of Russia by land. Dmitry Medvedev, deputy chairman of Russia's Security Council, said this week that curbs on the shipment of goods to Kaliningrad were part of a Western proxy war and that Russia had numerous ways to retaliate.
 
"There are many opportunities, a significant part of them are of an economic nature and are capable of cutting off the oxygen to our Baltic neighbours who have taken hostile actions," he told a Russian newspaper.
 
"There is also the possibility of using asymmetric measures, which ... will cause a critical escalation of the conflict."



 
Blabla. La réalité, c'est que Poutine a besoin de ca comme argument de persuassion, et doit le maintenir en état parce que ca se déglingue à grande Vitesse si on ne l'entretient pas :  
 
https://www.google.no/maps/@54.7596 [...] !1e3?hl=fr
 
C'est quoi ces silos au milieu du bois ?  
 
Je t'en ai mis un mais y en a d'autres...
 

n°66244254
SFO
Posté le 29-06-2022 à 23:21:54  profilanswer
 

LaRoueEstTombee a écrit :


Ah merde [:tinostar]  
 
Ce mélange de bled du nord, c'est la faute d'errare :O

C'est plus difficile que la géographie du Mali ?  :lol:  
 

n°66244306
arthas77
Posté le 29-06-2022 à 23:33:20  profilanswer
 

SFO a écrit :

https://www.google.no/maps/@54.7596 [...] !1e3?hl=fr
 
C'est quoi ces silos au milieu du bois ?  
 
Je t'en ai mis un mais y en a d'autres...


On dirait un dépôt d'armes, mais complétement isolé, pas de caserne, pas d'aéroport ?

n°66244344
Sasha2012
Hé mon jeune
Posté le 29-06-2022 à 23:43:08  profilanswer
 

Esiuol a écrit :

EXCLUSIVE EU nears compromise deal to defuse standoff with Russia over Kaliningrad
 

Citation :

VILNIUS/BRUSSELS, June 29 (Reuters) - Trade through Lithuania to the Russian exclave of Kaliningrad could return to normal within days, two sources familiar with the matter said, as European officials edge towards a compromise deal with the Baltic state to defuse a row with Moscow. Kaliningrad, which is bordered by European Union states and relies on railways and roads through Lithuania for most goods, has been cut off from some freight transport from mainland Russia since June 17 under sanctions imposed by Brussels.
 
European officials are in talks about exempting the territory from sanctions, which have hit industrial goods such as steel so far, paving the way for a deal in early July if EU member Lithuania drops its reservations, said the people, who declined to be named because the discussions are private. The row over the Russian exclave's isolation is testing Europe's resolve to enforce sanctions imposed following Russia's invasion of Ukraine, fuelling fears of an escalation after other restrictions pushed Russia to default on its debt.
 
While Western powers have pledged to stand up for Ukraine, reiterating their resolve at both G7 and NATO summits this week, it is proving hard for Europe both to stand by strict sanctions and avoid further escalation with Russia. That's why European officials, with the backing of Germany, are seeking a compromise to resolve one of their many conflicts with Moscow, said one of the people.
 
If the traditional route for Russian goods to Kaliningrad, first via its ally Belarus and then Lithuania, is not restored, the Baltic state fears Moscow could use military force to plough a land corridor through its territory, the person said. Germany, meanwhile, has soldiers stationed in Lithuania and could be sucked into a confrontation alongside its NATO allies if that were to happen.
 
Europe's biggest economy is also heavily reliant on Russian gas imports and would be vulnerable to any reduction in flows if the Kaliningrad dispute escalated.
 
"We have to face reality," said one person with direct knowledge of the EU discussions, describing Kaliningrad as "sacred" for Moscow.
 
"(Putin) has much more leverage than we have. It's in our interests to find a compromise," he said, conceding that the eventual outcome may appear unfair.

 
COMPROMISE DEAL
 
A spokesperson for Lithuania's foreign ministry said it will continue to consult with the European Commission about the application of sanctions and that any change by the bloc should not single out the Baltic state.
 
"Sanctions must be enforced, and any decisions taken should not undermine the credibility and effectiveness of EU sanctions policy," the spokesperson said.
 
"As Kaliningrad transit is possible through various EU member states, the European Commission's explanation of how to implement the EU sanctions ... cannot be limited to Lithuania."

 
A spokesperson for the European Commission pointed to its June 22 statement that Lithuania was implementing EU restrictions and that the supply of essential goods to Kaliningrad remained unhindered. One of the people with direct knowledge of the matter said they expected a compromise deal would be found by July 10 and a second person said it could be announced next week. One compromise could see the movement of freight between Russia and Kaliningrad exempt from EU sanctions on the grounds it does not count as normal international trade because the exclave is part of Russia, said one of those people.
 
That concession could only be made on condition sanctioned freight is used in Kaliningrad and not exported via its port, where Russia's Baltic Fleet is headquartered. That could be hard to guarantee and might put Lithuania, which is tasked with determining the end destination of goods, on a collision course with Russia, said the person.
 
Another person said humanitarian grounds could be used to carve out an exemption for Kaliningrad, which is sandwiched between Lithuania, Poland and the Baltic Sea. He said, however, that Lithuania had serious reservations about making what could be seen as a concession to Moscow.
 
ALCOHOL AND CEMENT
 
Lithuania, formerly ruled from Moscow, is now one of Russia's fiercest critics in the European Union and has been at odds with officials in Germany and Brussels who want to defuse the row. So far, EU sanctions against Russia prevent the transport of iron, steel and metals to Kaliningrad through EU states.
 
The list of sanctioned goods will extend to cement and alcohol from July 10, coal in August and oil products such as fuel in December. When the final phase kicks in, roughly half the freight sent to Kaliningrad from Russia will be sanctioned. Neither passengers nor food products are banned and Kaliningrad can still be reached by plane or sea.
 
While the United States and European Union have promptly rolled out sanctions to curb Russia's access to international finance and its sales of coal and oil, the punitive measures have done little to temper Russian military aggression. In recent weeks, Moscow has also turned the tables on Europe by paring back critical gas supplies, prompting Germany to brace for rationing and watch the escalating row over Kaliningrad with increasing apprehension.
 
Kaliningrad, which has a population of almost one million, was cut off from Moscow when Lithuania became independent during the break-up of the Soviet Union and residents must transit EU territory to reach the rest of Russia by land. Dmitry Medvedev, deputy chairman of Russia's Security Council, said this week that curbs on the shipment of goods to Kaliningrad were part of a Western proxy war and that Russia had numerous ways to retaliate.
 
"There are many opportunities, a significant part of them are of an economic nature and are capable of cutting off the oxygen to our Baltic neighbours who have taken hostile actions," he told a Russian newspaper.
 
"There is also the possibility of using asymmetric measures, which ... will cause a critical escalation of the conflict."


si c'est avéré c'est ridicule, pour une fois on a une sanction qui les fait vraiment chier, donc ils chouinent et notre réaction c'est de leur trouver un compromis ? si ça les emmerde tellement ils ont qu'à dégager de l'Ukraine et on reparle, je vois pas quel autre compromis crédible il peut y avoir
 
c'est quoi le projet, leur mettre des sanctions mais seulement si ça les embête pas trop ?

Message cité 2 fois
Message édité par Sasha2012 le 29-06-2022 à 23:43:52
n°66244368
Rhadamenth​os
6EQUJ5
Posté le 29-06-2022 à 23:50:40  profilanswer
 

M300A a écrit :

Sinon on sait pourquoi la Russie échange finalement les prisonniers d'azovstal, ou en tout cas une partie ? Je ne comprends pas le move la :heink:


Parce qu'ils savent que ce sont pas des vrais nazis mais qu'ils ont bien fait monter la sauce pour en obtenir le plus possible ?


---------------
"Toutes choses sont dites déjà ; mais comme personne n'écoute, il faut toujours recommencer" - André Gide, Le Traité du Narcisse
n°66244381
tim-timmy
Posté le 29-06-2022 à 23:55:12  profilanswer
 

pas vu passer la news mais ils ont peut être séparé azov/le reste ?
 
edit: non
 

[:fabrice division:10] Illia Ponomarenko https://gitlab.com/BZHDeveloper/HFR/raw/master/emojis-micro/1f1fa-1f1e6.png [:yoann riou:9] (@IAPonomarenko) :

144 Ukrainian POWs have returned home as a result of a prisoner swap with Russia.  
That includes 95 Azovstal defenders, 43 of them are of the Azov Regiment.
Most of them were injured.


 
blessés qu'ils ne veulent pas devoir continuer à traiter ?


Message édité par tim-timmy le 30-06-2022 à 00:03:25
n°66244383
M300A
Posté le 29-06-2022 à 23:55:42  profilanswer
 

Rhadamenthos a écrit :


Parce qu'ils savent que ce sont pas des vrais nazis mais qu'ils ont bien fait monter la sauce pour en obtenir le plus possible ?

 

Tu sous entendrais qu'ils aurait un raisonnement construit et logique, avec plusieurs phases temporelles ?

 

Non il doit y avoir autre chose  :heink:


---------------
:wq
n°66244391
bellemouss​e
que du bonheur
Posté le 30-06-2022 à 00:00:00  profilanswer
 

Sasha2012 a écrit :

si c'est avéré c'est ridicule, pour une fois on a une sanction qui les fait vraiment chier, donc ils chouinent et notre réaction c'est de leur trouver un compromis ? si ça les emmerde tellement ils ont qu'à dégager de l'Ukraine et on reparle, je vois pas quel autre compromis crédible il peut y avoir

 

c'est quoi le projet, leur mettre des sanctions mais seulement si ça les embête pas trop ?


La Lituanie fait ce que ne veut pas faire la france l allemagne et l italie, les faire chier et les humilier bien profond, les pousser à faire  la gaffe que l otan espère.
Un vrai pays qui a des couilles en titane +++.
Ils verse des citernes d huile sur le feu. Ils sont conscients si la russie va gagner cette parite que ça ne va l arrêter pour aller plus loin. Les seuls à mettre le maximum une pression.
Beaucoup de leçons à écouter les etats baltes. poutine est pourriture qui n a que faire de la vie et de ses soldats et encore moins de celle des ukrainiens d abord puis de ceux des pays qui suivront


---------------
si la terre peut se passer de nous, nous n'avons aucune chance sans elle https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Xw4fZMurEg  Je voudrais être un arbre, boire à l'eau des orages https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_q1cwkvufo
n°66244407
Sasha2012
Hé mon jeune
Posté le 30-06-2022 à 00:05:59  profilanswer
 

l'Europe de l'ouest (France, Allemagne, Italie) a clairement des leçons a prendre de la part de l'Europe de l'est (Pologne, pays baltes) sur la manière appropriée de traiter avec la Russie. Ils ont l'expérience pour eux.

n°66244420
Olivie
SUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
Posté le 30-06-2022 à 00:13:07  profilanswer
 

Sasha2012 a écrit :

l'Europe de l'ouest (France, Allemagne, Italie) a clairement des leçons a prendre de la part de l'Europe de l'est (Pologne, pays baltes) sur la manière appropriée de traiter avec la Russie. Ils ont l'expérience pour eux.


L'Europe de l'Est est surtout plus menacée que nous le sommes :o


---------------

n°66244426
bellemouss​e
que du bonheur
Posté le 30-06-2022 à 00:14:59  profilanswer
 

Pour eux c est la production d abord, le fric après et l insécurité qui nous menace avec des restes


---------------
si la terre peut se passer de nous, nous n'avons aucune chance sans elle https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Xw4fZMurEg  Je voudrais être un arbre, boire à l'eau des orages https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_q1cwkvufo
n°66244428
GrOVEnor
Posté le 30-06-2022 à 00:15:48  profilanswer
 

Sasha2012 a écrit :

l'Europe de l'ouest (France, Allemagne, Italie) a clairement des leçons a prendre de la part de l'Europe de l'est (Pologne, pays baltes) sur la manière appropriée de traiter avec la Russie. Ils ont l'expérience pour eux.


Disons plutôt qu'ils ont une confiance indéfectible dans les USA  :o

n°66244432
bellemouss​e
que du bonheur
Posté le 30-06-2022 à 00:17:56  profilanswer
 

Olivie a écrit :


L'Europe de l'Est est surtout plus menacée que nous le sommes :o


C est un fait, mais derrière ils prennent des mesures qui plantent réellement l économie russe et c est sur cela qu il faut enfoncer le bouchon le plus loin possible
Et ca fait 4 mois que poutine nous menace d agir sur les pays aidant l'Ukraine.
Je n ai rien vu venir,  et ca continuera


Message édité par bellemousse le 30-06-2022 à 00:21:16

---------------
si la terre peut se passer de nous, nous n'avons aucune chance sans elle https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Xw4fZMurEg  Je voudrais être un arbre, boire à l'eau des orages https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_q1cwkvufo
n°66244454
bobe
Posté le 30-06-2022 à 00:31:49  profilanswer
 

live le monde; poutine :
 

Citation :

L’appel à l’Ukraine à poursuivre les combats et à refuser les négociations ne fait que confirmer notre hypothèse que l’Ukraine et le bien du peuple ukrainien, ce n’est pas l’objectif de l’Occident et de l’OTAN, mais un moyen de défendre leurs propres intérêts (…) Les pays leaders de l’OTAN souhaitent (…) affirmer leur hégémonie, leurs ambitions impériales.


 
 [:massys]

n°66244490
grozibouil​le
Posté le 30-06-2022 à 00:52:28  profilanswer
 

J'en peux plus de la propagande toujours plus grossière et des inepties flagrantes balancées chaque jour par le Kremlin et ses portes-paroles, ça commence à me donner des envies de meurtre. [:sirguda]

Message cité 3 fois
Message édité par grozibouille le 30-06-2022 à 00:52:43

---------------
Steve Jobs est quand même un sacré magicien. Avec une seule pomme, il a fait naître des millions de poires.
n°66244494
M300A
Posté le 30-06-2022 à 00:54:29  profilanswer
 

Pareil c'est malaisant


---------------
:wq
n°66244496
gloinfred
Posté le 30-06-2022 à 00:54:38  profilanswer
 

Modération a écrit :


 
[:darth21:1]  
 
On en a vu des gros ici, mais là c'est top 3 assurément.
 
Un mois de ban  [:sgt-d:6]  
 


 
 
Normalement on ne commente pas les décisions des modos, mais là c'est tellement beau que je me permet de rebondir.  :lol:

mood
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